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Welcome to The Adaptive Mindset. I'm Bret Gallant, cybersecurity thought leader and founder of Adaptive Office Solutions. Here, we don't just talk tech. We unlock the strategies, stories, and mindset shifts you need to stay secure, lead boldly, and thrive in a digital world. Let's get started. Welcome back to The Adaptive Mindset. What happens when you become so good at pushing through that you stop asking what it's costing you. You're getting things done, you're meeting expectations, you might even be reaching goals you once dreamed about. But are you enjoying the life that you're working so hard to build? Today I'm, I'm happy to be joined by Paula Houlihan, a keynote speaker,

executive coach, and author of Hijacked: 0:52

whose work focuses on decision-making under pressure and sustainable performance. Paula's background is in corporate insurance, where she handled high-stakes claims and litigation. She describes a life-changing health diagnosis as the turning point that made her reconsider how she was pursuing success. Today, we're exploring the choices behind our schedules, why we say yes when we are already stretched, Why stepping back can feel uncomfortable, and how to pursue meaningful goals without continually putting the rest of our lives on hold. Paula, welcome to The Adaptive Mindset. Thank you for having me. Thank you, Brett. So glad to be here. It's such a pleasure to have you. So, um, can you tell us a little bit, uh, about you before, like, bring us back before coaching, before the book? Um, before the diagnosis, what did success look like for you? Yeah. Um, success for me looked like working long, hard hours, achieving the responsibilities that I was striving for. Uh, in the insurance industry when I was active back then, and it's not that long ago, uh, it, it's a male-dominated industry. So often I was the only woman at the negotiating table. Um, in fact, Often the opposing counsel thought I was the one there taking notes or something. We actually started negotiating. And because of that, and I think a lot of viewers and listeners can relate to this, whenever we feel that we've worked really hard to achieve that level of success, we give even more because we want to make sure that we're proving our value for being there. And that was what drove me to where I ended up. And why I had to redefine my definition of success. Because in my mind, success meant you worked really hard, you put your nose to the grindstone, long hours, you took work home. If someone needed something, you said yes. Right. You just, you were all in. And unfortunately that's not sustainable. And I learned that the hard way. Yeah, I'm, I'm with you. I've, I've, I wrote the book on that too. I've, I've, hard caring member. So on the other side of it. So what does an ordinary week look like now for you, now that you're on the other side of that? Now, so my schedule varies day to day because of the nature of my work. Sometimes I'm coaching, sometimes I'm traveling to speak, sometimes I'm on stage speaking, sometimes I'm, you know, sitting at my desk booking things or creating content. But what it looks like consistently is every day I make sure I get enough sleep every day. I make sure I sit down to eat. I don't eat on the run. I eat healthy food, and I make sure that I enjoy— I take the time to enjoy the food I'm eating. I make sure that I have conversations with people I care about every day, and I make sure that I give myself fully to the work that I do. But the work that I do is limited. It has bandwidths around it and boundaries around it, and I I don't say yes to everything now like I used to because I discovered that I don't have to prove my value. My value is inherent, and I can choose when and where I'm going to allow my time and my energy to be used. Because if we're not mindful of where we're using our time and our energy, it will take over us. Yeah, yeah, that's so true. A lot of founders are busy being heroes to everybody, but they're forgetting to protect their time. So absolutely having that, those boundaries. And, and I love how you said that you're not having to prove yourself, you know, then, and you can pick and choose what you say yes to. So. And that I had to learn the hard way because we're so busy proving ourselves that we forget that we get to control what we do or don't say yes to instead of always saying yes to be perceived as valuable. Yeah, yeah, it's— it is— you're— man, you're hitting some points really heavy to me right now because I'm, I'm going through some coaching of— for speaking coaching, and, and it's, um, a part of what I've been working on is value of what I do. Mm-hmm. So it's really, really, really, uh, really interesting to hear you talk about it because I'm taking it and applying, thinking about where it applies to me. And I'm sure everybody else listening is thinking about that as well. Um, so like, take me back to that turning point though. What, like, what exactly made you realize that something that you needed to change? Like, what, like, what was the aha moment for you? Yeah, so it— there was one poignant aha moment at the doctor's office, but leading up to that I was panicking because I was realizing I was struggling to keep up. My energy was draining. I was exhausted. I had trouble focusing. I was working longer and more hours to try to maintain what I was doing a year or two before that. And I was afraid that people were going to find out that I wasn't as competent as I appeared on the outside. By the time I went to the doctor, just walking across a room would leave me panting. I had trouble focusing, which when you're handling high-risk claims, that's not good. Right. When I went to the doctor, I was really hoping I could get a prescription to help me stay awake and focused during the day, and maybe a prescription to help me sleep at night because I don't know about you, Brett, but staying up at night is what I did, worrying about all the things that I needed to do the next day. And beating myself up about all the things I didn't get done. When I went to the doctor's office, I was diagnosed— my doctor told me I was one stage away from having an adrenal crisis. Adrenals support your lung and brain and heart health, and if the adrenals can't produce enough cortisol and enough adrenaline and noradrenaline, you can, you can be in a very serious life-threatening situation pretty quickly. Wow. And all of that was what was contributing to the symptoms that I just thought were part of being successful. Like, I just figured being tired is part of being successful because what did I say? We work hard, long hours. We put our nose to the grindstone. We just keep pushing through, pushing through, pushing through. Yeah, it's bad. And, um, yeah, yeah, yeah, right, exactly. I used to say that too. It's like I wore my stress like a badge of honor, like this proves I'm successful. Yeah. And, um, yeah, my doctor told me that I needed to make some changes or I probably wouldn't be here a year from now. And that practically knocked me off my seat. And he said I needed to make some different choices. Yeah. And that word choice hit me kind of hard because I thought to myself, I did not choose this. This is not something that I chose for myself. This was happening to me and I didn't even know it was happening to me. Yeah. And what I've come to realize is, while I didn't consciously choose it openly, all the choices I made along the way up until that point, this was the consequence of those choices, whether I realized I was making them or not. And that was the big aha for me, is wait a minute, if it's not happening to me and it's a result of choices I don't know I'm making, How do I figure out how I'm making them? Because then I can get that power back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's funny because I had that— I had a similar moment of— Sorry. No, in a different way, though. It was just my health. And I made that choice when the coach asked me a question and I made a decision. that things had to change. And I chose me and I chose me because it matters. And like, you chose you because it mattered. You chose you like you started making the choices. So. And that wasn't easy. Like, if I didn't have a life-threatening diagnosis, I don't know how easy choosing me would have been over all the things I thought I needed to choose. It was that catalyst. It was that, that one thing that really— okay, this Paula, this is serious. Yes. No more. This is like, it almost like maybe a non-negotiable for you. Right. Yeah, it absolutely was a non-negotiable. And that's why I love that we're having these conversations, because I didn't know other people struggled with this. I thought it was just me. Yeah. And so I'm glad that we're having this conversation, because I'm sure there are listeners to your, your podcast who may be having some similar situation and not even aware of it yet. Oh, it shows up in all aspects, Paula. Like, for me, some of my listeners know that I was 349 pounds, and I made the choice when my coach asked me a question. But it shows up in different— and what I realized after looking at my life, it shows up in different areas of our lives sometimes where we make those choices. So, so— What was the question your coach asked you? I'm curious. I was walking because I always walk and talk with my coach. Uh-huh. Now, no, actually back then I wasn't because I wasn't integrating things into my life. But I was talking to my coach. I said, Dave, I don't have time to go to the gym. And he said, Brett, you mean to tell me you own your own business and you don't have time to go to the gym? Isn't that interesting? I can relate. Yeah, I know you can, can't you? Because look at what you were like, the old version of you. What were you doing, right? And what were you choosing? And what, what did you learn from that, Paula? Like, what, like, from the other side of it? Yeah, well, first and foremost, I realized, and what I've discovered, and this, this was like mind-blowing to me, um, because I, I went back to school and, and got a degree in psychology and One of the things I discovered was that when we're under stress, guess what is making the choices for you? Not your conscious part of your brain, not the executive center of your brain, the part of your brain that's designed to operate on autopilot, just run behind the scenes. And unfortunately, we're not monitoring that, we're not regulating it, and it doesn't pick what's best in the moment or what's best aligned with your goals. Yeah. It picks with What works best, and it's considering what keeps you alive. That's all your brain's designed to do, is keep you alive. Yeah. And so it's gonna pick whatever worked last time that you survived, whether it's aligned with what you want or what's important to you. And it does it so quickly because that's what our brain is designed to do, to keep us alive. Yep. Yeah. So that got me to understanding, well, how did that— how did that get into my brain in the first place? And it's, you know, it's a culmination of things as we grow up. We experience things, we develop belief systems, we inherit belief systems, we're taught by our society how we should do things, those should concepts, right? And we never second-guess them because they pop up in our head and we just think they're true because we're thinking them. And the funny thing is we can change those if they're no longer working for us. And that's what that book is all about. Yeah. If you don't like the way things are, change it. You're not a tree. Like, that's hard. Hard when you're, when you're not like, and you're, when you're in that part of the brain, you don't know. And sometimes it takes, you know, a moment like what you had to realize that you have to change. Right. And that's why so many people do change when they hit that proverbial rock bottom, because it's not negotiable anymore at that point. Right. And so my hope is that we can have these these conversations so people can change before it gets there, before it gets to that desperate hour. Yeah, well, I'm— I keep thinking, and I'm sure you think, like, what would your life be if you didn't change? Like, for me, what would my life be? Maybe I have 5 kids, Paula. Um, may not have been here. Yeah, we still had 2 at home at that time. Yeah. And you may not have been there for your children and for your loved ones. You value your relationships. Absolutely. Yeah. And the thing is, we're working so hard to be successful, but we don't give ourselves permission to take the time to enjoy it. Yeah. Because life is— life is a journey, and it is— you have to— like, there's so much enjoyment in it, but we, when we're drowning In our work, we don't see it. We're— it's just boom, boom, boom. You can't see it. So. Absolutely. We're in that reactive mode constantly. Yeah. Did you have a hard time giving yourself permission, though, to live differently? Like— I still do. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Because, you know, Being a high performer, that, that's inherent in me. That's my drive. I have this inner drive to constantly be doing and growing and achieving. And that's a good thing as long as it's in balance. Like you said, it's important that we give ourselves permission to take care of ourselves as well as taking care of the people who rely on us. Mm-hmm. At that time, it was easy to put in my 2 weeks' notice because I was facing, I might not be here in a year. And I needed to get my stress levels under control and quickly. So that, you know, when you're facing a life-threatening diagnosis, it forces you to make some choices that maybe you might struggle with otherwise. At least for me, I can say that. Yeah. When I gave my notice, it took a year and a half to get my health back. I do have my health back. I do have to make sure that I'm not going into those overriding patterns again, because even though I'm aware of them, They do run unconsciously. So if we're not checking in, they will still come up. Sometimes your brain will go, oh wait, that worked before, right? So it's still something that I'm constantly monitoring. And I think, I think that's just the nature of it, because as we go through life, life changes, life circumstances change, responsibilities change, roles change. And if we don't reprogram along the way, We're going to end up right back in that situation again because what's, you know, what the information that our brain is using to make decisions aren't always going to support us moving forward. So easy to say no at that time. I catch myself sometimes overriding because it's my nature, but I reel it back in and I have a process where I check in. And yeah, it's just being aware, I think, is the biggest thing because I used to feel Shame and guilt and like a failure. And now I realize, no, it's just my brain making choices for me, doing exactly what it's designed to do. So if any of your listeners are feeling that way, it's not you. Your brain's just running the programs it's been given, and you can reprogram that. You can change that by making different choices, but you have to check in and see how things are going. Yeah, you have to check in and be honest with yourself too. Absolutely. Yeah, that's— um, so can someone still be producing great results and reaching their goals while heading toward a way of working that they can't sustain? Like, what, what does that, what does that look like in the people you coach now? Absolutely. And the people I coach, I coach because of that. Because they know something's wrong. Now, wrong for them or what they're experiencing is different for each of them. But I will tell you, Brett, one of the things they all have in common is they think they're the only person struggling. Yeah. They see everybody else doing great, 'cause guess what? We don't like to admit when we're struggling. So nobody says anything to us. No, not in front of us. Yes, yes. Which is why I love these conversations. The other thing is they think that they're failing at something. Usually it's they think they're failing at managing their time. Like, if I just could manage my time better, if I just had another hour in the day. And so then what they do is they try to look for ways to have more time, like cutting back on sleep, skipping meals, not exercising, like doing the things, anything that where they can find an extra 10, 20, 30 minutes, right? And the problem with that is that that is not sustainable. And they are successful. They're high-performing professionals. They're extremely successful. And from the outside, everything looks perfect. perfect. Like, as far as the success goes, they're point on. They're making the good money. They've got the respect of their industry and their peers. Like, they're producing, but they know that they're struggling. And just like I knew I was having a hard time keeping up, they know that they're struggling. And so that's why they start looking for coaching, because they can share that one-on-one with a coach who's going to be confidential, but they're not going to talk to their peers about it. They're not going to talk to their superiors about it. They have a hard enough time admitting it for themselves. Yeah. Yes, absolutely. You can be successful and be heading in a way that is not going to be sustainable. It's not everyone. Actually, I'm going to go in a different place here. I think some people have a different perception of coaching and they don't really understand what it is. And they— but I have a good— I like to think I have a good relationship with understanding what coaching is. What do you think is the best, like, the best dynamic that can benefit a person that maybe, you know, a founder that's lost or that needs help and they don't Like, they don't— maybe they haven't— like, for me, I know where I first didn't engage in coaching. And I've been using coaches for, oh, 9 years now. My first— the first time I was asked if I wanted a coach, I said I didn't. I didn't have time. Mm-hmm. What do you say? If you are— have you ever ran— run into that or see anything? Or, or what, what, what brings— and expanding on that, in a coaching relationship, what brings— like, what, what's the definition for success for, for you and for your client? Or for people that maybe— Oh, someone's listening to this right now, probably thinking to themselves, I need a coach, but maybe don't don't even understand what value that can bring. Yeah, absolutely. First and foremost, because I have a degree in psychology and I am a certified coach, I know the difference between the two. Coaching is not counseling. Counseling is for mental health issues and well-being issues. Coaching is to support you in achieving your goals or a lifestyle that you're trying to create. So that's two different things. And sometimes my clients, I will refer them for counseling as well as the coaching. Sometimes I just send them to counseling. So just understanding the clarity. And that's why I think it's so important to work with a licensed coach, because anyone in the state of Wisconsin— I'm not sure about other states because every state has different laws— but in the state of Wisconsin, anyone can say they're a coach without training. Yes. Now, some of them are qualified. I'm not saying that that's all bad. Some of them are qualified because of their experience and their expertise, and they're qualified to coach. based on that. They've earned that. They just don't have a license. But then there are others who aren't qualified. And so I am a licensed intrinsic coach. What's— so what do I say when they say they don't have time? Well, first of all, they came to me for a reason, and they're taking the time to have that conversation, so they clearly see value in figuring this out. So, and I also remind them that every single one of my clients thinks they don't have enough time. But the beautiful thing about time is when when we put our time and our energy into what supports us, I don't know if you've experienced this, Brett, but you actually end up with more time on your hands because you're using it better. You're, you're being more effective in the time that you apply yourself. Yeah. So that— there's that. Now, what do I, what do I consider success as coaching? Because I do intrinsic coaching, the philosophy of that is you are your own best expert. Nobody knows you better than you. So my role is to engage with you in a way that gets you to share what you already know that answers the questions you're asking me. And whenever that happens, they look at me like in amazement. How did I know that about them? Am I reading their mind? And I'm like, you just said it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What you just told me. The thing is, we're so close to our life that we don't know how to ask ourselves the questions because our brain is running the patterns and habits and default decisions that it's always been running. And so we don't know how to step outside of that to look in. And so that's where coaching is really helpful. It's interesting. I keep thinking about— I listen to a lot of podcasts and I've been following one gentleman for a long time. And what he said when he was— when he had the podcast, The Mentee, and then he went to The One Thing, Jeff Woods. He said, ask a better question. And sometimes, like what you just said, we're not asking ourselves the better question. And a coach can help you ask that better question because they can help from outside see. Yes. And then, you know, a lot of times, you know the answer. You're just asking the right question to get there. So, yeah. Yes. And listening is also a huge part of what I do because I am listening not to just what they say, but also to what they're not saying, which directs the questions as well. Because that's the other thing our brain likes to do, is avoid the problem. So it'll circle around it. Um, it, you know, perfect, perfect example of a

question I can ask you: 24:43

what do you want? Yeah. You're gonna have all kinds of answers for that. But if I ask you, what are you wanting? Yeah. Right now? Yeah. No one answers that right away. No. It's just a different form of a question. Yeah. But that's, that's a question that allows a person to go a little deeper and think than, what do you want? Well, I, I want a cheeseburger. I don't know. So what are you wanting? I don't know. I gotta really think about that. Yeah. So. And that's when I know that we are going in the right place, because if they don't have an immediate response for it. Now we're doing cognitive, conscious thought, not responsive, reactive answers. And that's where the gold is. That's where everything they know is there. They just haven't gone there before. Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. Have you— what's been your most rewarding experience so far? Doing this? You know, it's not one client that's more rewarding than the others, but what is consistently common throughout as what is the most rewarding is when I have that moment with a client where suddenly they see their own value in themselves and are understanding that they are solving their problem. Just by what they already know about themselves. Like that, that aha light bulb moment where they, where they see it differently, where that perspective shifts and it no longer feels like something is happening to them that's outside of their control. But that moment when they realize they can actually engage and, and create a change by simply choosing differently. But they didn't know what they were choosing before. And now it's clear. Now they see it. Now that pattern, when it comes up again, and it will. That's our brain works. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But when it comes up, they'll see it and they'll know. They'll— because once you recognize it, you, you don't ever not see it again. And that changes everything for them. 100%. You slow down and you see it. Oh, no, I've seen this before. Not this time. Or maybe you do it again that time and then you realize, oh, okay, yeah, I messed up. All right. I chose this, but next time I recognize I did it, it's okay, but I'm not doing it next time. And understanding why they chose it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yes. And I know why I choose some things. It's the people pleasing. Yes. So recovering people pleaser here. So same here. And you know what? What I've, what I've discovered, nothing wrong with people pleasing, but the, but it goes back to like what, what you were saying in the beginning, you also have to value your time. Yes. And sometimes the biggest yes is what you say no to. And, and actually, I'm thinking about it right now. There's somebody I want to help right now with something that's not— the old version of me would say yes. I actually, I just decided right now, I'm, I'm I'm going to point them to somebody else that can help them. I'm still living to my values of being helpful, but I'm not going to own the outcome. Oh, that's huge for people pleasing. Not owning the outcome, not, not fixing the problem for them, not taking on the responsibility that isn't yours to take on. Absolutely. And I agree, there is nothing wrong with people pleasing. It's what makes human beings wonderful. We help and support each other. And as you said, when it's to our own detriment, That's the problem. Right. I don't know if you know Ryan Holiday. He does the Stoic philosophy. He's the Daily Stoic. He said something that has always stuck with me. He said, when you say yes, who or what are you saying no to? And he used the example of if I say yes to a speaking engagement, I am saying no to that time with my family or no to that time working on my book or— right? So it's okay to say yes. Everything has a cost. It does. It all has a cost. Yeah. It does. And so we have a hard time saying no to ourselves. But when he put it in that way, it was like, who or what am I saying no to when I say yes to that? That gave it a completely different perspective shift for me. Yes. Because, like, When you have that speaking engagement, you are away from your family for 2 days, sometimes a week. And there's a cost, you know. And sometimes that cost is, is worth it because that's how you make your living and that's how you support your family. But sometimes that's not the right thing to be saying yes to in this moment. Right. And, and taking it back to the early years for you, you were saying yes to maybe a lot of things that you shouldn't have. Absolutely. Okay. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Like that you— that Paula didn't need to own the outcome for everything and maybe working through other people more, like through about, um, uh, you know, the book Who Not How, working through people. Yeah. And basing my value on that, like, how am I valuable? Is helping other people? Well, yes, to an extent, but not to the detriment of my family or myself or my health or my community. Right. And it's so funny what drives those decisions, and we're so not aware of it. Yeah. We're so not aware of what's driving our choices. But once we shift the perspective, we can get a glimpse. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I, I can identify with that so much. I see it now. I do. I, do I fall back? Yeah. And I, like you said, you fall back sometimes. So let's talk about the yes, we regret. Some— someone asks you for one more thing. We already have too much on our plate and we hear ourselves agreeing anyway. What should we get curious about in that moment? And, and maybe if you want to share a story about something you said yes to that you regret it, you want to tie that in. Yeah, that's a good question. So the yes we regret, the question we should ask ourselves is one that I've already shared. If you are, if you are compelled to say yes to something you feel resistance to, like you don't really want to, but you feel like you should, ask yourself in that moment, what am I wanting? Yeah. What am I wanting right now? Because what that does is it lets you see beyond just the question that's being asked of you, the favor that's being asked of you. It lets you see all the other aspects of what's going on in your life right now. Now, this is a simple example, but there was— so when I was practicing this, first practicing this, what am I wanting? And this is one of the questions I was trained on when I was going through my intrinsic coaching certification. First of all, I discovered I had extra hours in the day because when I asked myself that question, it was really easy to say no to things when I looked at it from that perspective because it didn't fit with what I was wanting. And then a question came from my husband. So it's always tricky when it's from someone you care about Or someone you respect, right? And my husband— I, I was working from home at that time now because this is post the whole diagnosis and getting my health back. And so I'm working in my office, and because you have a home office, people can walk in and out really easily. And he came in and he said, hey, can you, can you run to town and pick this up for me? Because he knew I was going to town at some point that day, and he was hoping I could pick it up like right now. Yeah. Yeah. And my instinct was to say yes because I love my husband. I want to help him. I, you know, I— could I do it right then? Sure I could. I, I am master of my own day. I'm my own boss. Could I just go? Yeah, I could. And I asked myself, and I— but I felt a little resistance, like a little irritation. And I was curious. I asked myself, what am I wanting? And what I was wanting in that moment was to finish working on the project I was working on, but I was also wanting to support and help my husband. Hmm. So now I had 2 wants conflicting with each other. And what the response was, was, I would love to run and get that for you. As you know, I was planning on going to town anyway, but here's the deal. I need to finish this project. If I leave this project right now, I can't guarantee I'm going to get back to it later today. And then the day is gone, and the project that I promised myself I'd finish today going to be done. That's the other thing. How many promises to ourselves do we break when we say yes to other people, right? Yeah. And so with that clarity, because I asked myself in that moment, what am I wanting? And what I was wanting was to finish this project and make good on the promise I made to myself to finish that today. I gave myself a deadline and help my husband. I told him, I said, I will finish this. And when I'm done, then I will go into town and I will be more than happy to pick that up for you. And the thought that came up in my head was, but what if he needs it now and he can't wait? And that's when I realized I don't need to solve that problem. That's his choice. That's his problem. Yeah. Yeah. You don't need to solve that. It's his choice. If he needs it right now, he can go get it. I am happy to go get it for him later. Yes. And then it was not a choice of me feeling bad and guilty about not helping him. It was a, I need it make good on the promise to myself. I need to finish my work. I— my needs are just as valuable and prioritized as his. But it was an interesting process, and I remember that moment to this day because it was when I was first practicing this what am I wanting approach. And it, it's a simple, like, non-consequential thing. Yes. But it's a perfect example of how, how that process comes up and how Like I said, when we think about, okay, what am I wanting? You're not just looking at, do I want to help this person? You're looking at all the things that are going on in your life right now and what's important to you and what maybe you promised yourself. Maybe you didn't promise yourself, but if there's any kind of a resistance there, that's your clue that maybe it's working against something else that's also important to you. Yeah, that's so relatable. I'm sure everybody's listening to that and thinking about where does that apply in their lives? And actually, I see it like what I'm going to say no to, that's exactly what I'm going to incorporate that. What am I wanting? Brilliant. How, like, and some of that is, you know, that yes, sometimes that we might say to in those moments, Is it coming from a genuine priority or, or obligation, fear of disappointing someone? Like, you, like, you may have had that fear of disappointing your husband. Absolutely. Like, I have that fear of disappointing a client. Disappointing former clients. What am I wanting? And yet we don't think about disappointing ourselves. Yeah. Yeah. The last person on the list is Ourselves most of the time. And when we, when we think about that, it can kind of feel selfish. But when you think about it, if you're constantly sacrificing and disappointing yourself, do you get grumpy? Do you get irritable? Do you get short patience? Do you— like, we're not fun to be around when we don't take care of ourselves, and yet we feel guilty when we, when we prioritize it. Well, and I, I see that in my own life now. Before, there was this man that back when I was 349 pounds, I would see him post online, the, the owner of the gym, going to hike at French Fort Cove, a hiking trail, at 9 in the morning. I'm like, that must be nice. Mm-hmm. And I would be invited to go, but something would come up from a client, an emergency, which really didn't necessarily need me to solve at that time. That's a good point. I could have said, I already have an appointment. And that's what I do now. I have an appointment already on my calendar in the morning from 9 till And 30, that's my time. And that's important. So that's where you and I have shifted, where we understand the value of that versus being triggered by what we feel we should, quote unquote, should do, or that, that feeling of we need to fix their problem for them. And it's like, no, it's their emergency. I talk with my clients all the time, and I share this in a couple of stories in my book too, is other people's emergencies are not your emergency. Yes. Yes. It— right, you can have empathy for them. Absolutely. Absolutely. There's nothing wrong with having empathy, but it doesn't become— have to become a priority. Because when you say yes to that and own it out of a sense of obligation,

what it gets back to this: 38:51

what is the cost? And do you develop resentment? Like, does it— there's a lot of things that— When I used to say yes all the time. Sure. And so is that really— and then when we're resentful, then we feel guilty that we're resentful. It's a snowball. And like, and, and when you look at that, there's this gentleman I, I know and I respect. He says, who's missing out because you're not showing up? Well, right, when you're not giving yourself that time, well, someone's missing out because you didn't show up for yourself. Yes. Yes, that goes right back to that question of when you say yes, who or what are you saying no to? Exactly. Absolutely. And it's this concept of should. So I talk about living in shouldtopia. This is when our shoulds are dictating what's driving our decisions. And the problem when we are living there is we're never where we think we should be, because wherever we are, we always think we should be doing something else. And we're never enjoying the moment because we're never doing what is truly important to us because we're always being driven by what we think we should be doing. You know, when I was facing my health crisis, I had this definition of what a professional woman with my role should be doing. Yeah. And that definition was literally killing me, and I didn't know it. So we have to look at these shoulds as, well, first of all, why do we think we should? Where did that concept or that belief or that experience that supports that should? Where did that come from? And this is where we get back to that, Brett, where just because we have a thought in our head doesn't mean it's true and it doesn't mean it's supportive. No. Gosh, no, no. And yet we cling to them so tightly. Oh, like a, like a life jacket. They're rescuing us. I have a question to follow up more for you, like, and I, I want to ask this to get your perspective because somebody— I know somebody needs to hear this. What would you ask someone who keeps saying things will settle down after this next project? I'll start committing to the gym, I'll start committing to me, like, things will settle down after This next project. I think I know what you're saying. Yeah. So I'm giggling because that was me years ago. And that is— that can be me if I'm not paying attention to my choices. Because what I suspect is the person you're referring to is probably a high performer as well. They're a high achiever. They're always driven to keep going. So here's the thing. There will always be another project. There will always be, because you are not going to let it go. When you finish this, you're going to take on the next thing because we have such a hard time just being still. Yeah, that is hard because it goes against our nature. But what I've discovered is it doesn't really go against our nature. We just haven't allowed ourselves permission to experience it. And when we do, that high performance, that high achieving becomes so much more productive. But the difference is it's sustainable because we've given ourselves permission to take the time that we need to make ourselves sustainable. So to the, to the person you're asking the question for, um, it will never settle down because tell me the last time after a project it settled down for you. No, there's always another project, another client, another, another person that calls that might need rescuing. And every time we reach a bar that we've set for ourselves, what do we do? We raise it. Raise standards higher than— yeah, yeah, no, I— yeah, it's never ended. True, so true. And I've seen it. It's fortunate that, you know, when you're— when you can see it now, and I see it, that I— like, for me personally, I slowed down. Like, especially this season of my life. My mother passed away in June, and I made a choice that I was going to be still instead of drowning in the work? Like, have you ever— did that hide in the work? Yes. I didn't hide. I, I just— I went still. I did— like, I, I was necessary, did the work, but I allowed myself to process. So— I'm so sorry for your loss. Oh, but I'm glad that you took the time to process and grieve and, and go through, because otherwise it just— it doesn't It never goes away. And there's always another project. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And the other piece, too, is— and I go back to my personal experience— if I hadn't taken the time to go see that doctor, I mean, we assume we have tomorrow. Tomorrow's never promised. We assume that there will be a later. And there's not always a later. No. So not only will you have another project when you're done with this because that's your nature, but you're assuming a lot. Yeah, that you're going to have time later to enjoy it. No, that's why I look at every day as a gift. It's a, you know, it's a— like you, and you, you said it so beautifully, it's tomorrow. Yeah, you don't know if there's tomorrow. Um, Paula, I, I— we could go on for so much longer, and I really enjoyed our conversation. I have too. This was Really great. And I hope our listeners have taken some really great takeaways from this. How do people find you and how do they connect with you? Well, thank you for asking. You can find me on my website, which is paulahoolihan.com. You can also find me on social media. So I'm active on LinkedIn and on YouTube. And if you're interested in the book, that is wherever books are sold. And the title is Hijacked. And I call it Hijacked because your brain is actually hijacked. So the

full title of the book is Hijacked: 45:05

The Surprising Neuroscience Behind the Choices You Think You're Making and How to Take Back the Controls. I appreciate that. And I know after this, I didn't get a chance to order your book yet, but I will be ordering it. So— Oh, thank you. I'll be leaving you a review. So thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that. Thanks so much, Paula. I appreciate Thank you, Brett. It's been a pleasure meeting you, and I am so honored to be here and sharing this conversation with you and your, your listeners. Thanks for tuning into The Adaptive Mindset. If you found value in today's episode, don't forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with someone who's ready to thrive in the digital age. Stay secure, stay adaptive-minded, and we'll see you next time. And I'll see you next time.