Welcome to the adaptive mindset. I'm Brett Gallant, cybersecurity thought leader and founder of adaptive office solutions. Here we don't just talk tech. We unlock the strategies, stories, and mindset shifts you need to stay secure, lead boldly, and thrive in a digital world. Let's get started. Welcome back to the adaptive mindset. When most people hear the word adaptation, they. They think about business, leadership, technology, or overcoming obstacles. But some of the biggest adaptations we'll ever face have nothing to do with business at all. Sometimes adaptation is learning how to live after a diagnosis. Sometimes it's learning how to move forward after a loss. Sometimes it's learning how to build a meaningful life. When reality turns out very differently than the life you have planned, my guest today understands that journey from both sides. For more than 20 years, Dr. Jeffrey Bone helped people navigate the emotional realities of chronic illness and pain. As a mental health professional, he sat with people facing uncertainty, grief, fear, and the challenge of rebuilding their lives. When their bodies no longer cooperated, then life handed him the same challenge. Jeff lives with common variable immune deficiency, a rare immune disorder, and has personally experienced the uncertainty, fatigue, pain, and identity shifts that many of his clients face. Today we're going to explore resilience, suffering, meaning, identity, loneliness, and what happens when life refuses to cooperate with our plans. Jeff, welcome to the adaptive Mindset. Well, thank you very much for having me. I appreciate it. Yeah, it's such a pleasure to have you, Jeff. So before we, before we get into the lessons and insights, I'd love to start with your story. Okay, sounds good. Was Jeffrey Bone before chronic illness entered the picture? I was just some guy working and helping people on the mental health side of dealing with chronic pain, chronic illness, about, you know, two and a half decades. Two decades. And I was just probably a workaholic. I put in a lot of hours and didn't have a lot of hobbies, didn't have a lot of social connections. I just worked, had my family and I worked. Yeah, I was kind of. I didn't exist with too many layers. You, you were, you were going all out, but you didn't, you weren't taking the time for you at all. I was focusing on assist people with their stories, and I really wasn't concerned or focused on my own individual story. So at what point did you realize something wasn't right? I realized approximately a decade ago, I just had this nagging headache, wouldn't go away, and went to the ent. Kind of pretty straightforward. It's like, I thought there may be some sinus issues, and I had sinusitis. And he prescribed me prednisone, which is a normal medication to prescribe. You know, take some flonasum, some prednisone, and the sinus infection will go away. But my body flipped out, flipped out when I took the prednisone. And later I'd find out why, but my feet were vibrating, my bladder hurt, felt like I had a concussion. I was tremoring. I couldn't sleep. I had this horrible fatigue, memory loss, and just all of this from taking prednisone. It's like, is this from prednisone? It wasn't from prednisone. I go to all these different doctors, end up having sinus surgery with somebody else. But I see neurologists, internists, all the urologists. Everybody gets scoped in different ways, get scanned in different ways, and they don't really give me much of an answer. And so I end up with this one doctor, does some blood work, and you know what? I think you have a mold issue. And so I test my office, and lo and behold, there's black mold in the H Vac. And what had happened was that when I took the prednisone, lowered the immune system and the mycotoxins decided it was in charge. My body's immune system was able to fight them off until they couldn't because they got weakened with the prednisone. And so took me on a journey that just. It was over a year of treating in terms of treating the mold illness, which was chronic inflammatory response syndrome. But I still wasn't feeling great. And so then I said, you know what? I need to go to the Mayo Clinic. I'll go to the Mayo Clinic. But before I go to the Mayo Clinic, let me look at the local hospital. Let me see if there are any departments that maybe I haven't been to yet, and maybe I can talk to the people around here. So I look at the different departments, and there's one called toxicology. I didn't know what toxicology was, but I knew I felt toxic. And so it was as simple as that. So I go to see this gentleman. He doesn't believe the mold thing, the mold story. So it's like, you know what? That's fine, whatever. But he listened to me, and he did some blood work that other people didn't do, and he tested my igg, and that's the immunoglobulins. Makes up part of your immune system. Mine were clinically low, so sent me off to the immunologist, and then she gives me a vaccine, and a month later I go back, do blood work, and it shows. I didn't make any antibodies to that vaccine. So my body not making antibodies. Bodies, the low immunoglobulins, that's how I end up with the diagnosis of common variable immune deficiency. And now I take, you know, weekly infusions of immunoglobulins to help replace some of what I've lost. Okay, well, Along that way, like how. What kind of mindset shifts did you have to have when, you know, from that journey from sip symptoms to diagnosis. What. What did that look like? At first it was just messy. And it was tears, it was crying, it was this uncertainty. My brain was not the same. My body had betrayed me and was no longer the body that I had known for 40 decades or four decades. And so I'm not that old, but much younger. I'm 51. But it was grief. It was grief and it was fear. It was. It was the uncertainty and me wanting to go back. I wanted my old body, I wanted the old rules. I wanted everything to be the same. And I was chasing this ghost that was gone. The old guy that was going all out helping people. And then you were. Yes, the tables were flipped. So absolutely I was. I was just devastated. And it just completely rocked my world. So there no grace to it. There was no, you know, like, oh, I know what I can do and I'll have this mental perspective and this, this and that. At first it was just the. It was, it was, it was just ugly, messy, tearful and emotionally distraught. But that was a necessary piece of shedding that skin. I had to be able to grieve ultimately, what was lost. And there was a lot of grief to it. And after a while, I kn had to find some way to express myself. And that's when I decided to write poetry, of all things. I really wasn't a poet at all. But I needed something. And I wasn't one to kind of journal in the traditional route. I wasn't going to write a traditional book, but I needed something short and sweet to kind of get my control back. I needed some self efficacy back into my world. What? Because there was so much that I couldn't control. So much that was lost. I didn't really know. It's like getting a computer update and you don't know where the different files are. You don't know how to operate this new system. And so the. The beginning of that was saying, well, what can I do now? And having the curiosity to kind of Explore this present landscape to find what my strengths ultimately are in this new land. Yeah, that must have been pretty scary time to those who face that. But finding a way that worked for you for that release and expression, you know, so it was, it was like the first rung of the ladder. You know, poetry isn't like the be all, end all answer to like all my all that ails me. No, but it, it was, it was stepping away from the old self and being curious of what I could do. And so the poetry became, you know, chronic illness, you know, and journaling books that I. And then coloring books that I made and then some more kind of traditional books. And, and then I started my own podcast. All kind of solo episodes, but I've done 50 or so and it was just, well, what else can I do? What else? Where can I go with this? Where can I take it? How can I navigate this world in terms of what is it that I want? You know, which is, what are my values? What are my curiosities? What's going to make me feel good? What's going to make me feel pro? What's going to make me feel accomplished? Yeah. Yeah. So, Jeff, you spent years helping people navigate chronic illness professionally. Now, what was it like when you realized you were now becoming one of the people that you had spent decades helping? It was humbling. It was. And it's a lot easier to give the advice than to take it. As always. They say, they say nurses make the worst patients. Yes. So, yeah, I can see, Yeah, I fall into that. You know, it's like. And again last night I couldn't fall asleep very well. It's like, fine, fine. I'll do the progressive muscle relaxation and the deep breathing, which I should be doing every single night to kind of relax my nervous system. And it's like, I know all this stuff, but it doesn't mean that I practice all this stuff. Yeah, yeah. And so it's kind of like. And that's the curse that you can know it so well that you never use it. And so, and, and that's the worst. And so I was very humbled. And, and what was difficult was the amount of inflammation that was occurring in my brain. So I was trying to steer the ship, but the ship was limping along. I couldn't, I couldn't remember my kids names. I mean, the, the dog would look at me and I'm just like, I don't know your name. It's like. And, and, and so with this, you know, damaged ship of mine, I had to Kind of try to sol know my landscape, my world. And I had to kind of write a new story of what I could be and how I could use my. My. I wouldn't say gifts, but my strengths for, you know, moving forward in life. Yeah. How to harness them and. And recognize where the limits were and also where you could stretch them, I'm sure. Yes. And one of the things that helped me along the way was recognizing some of the ways that the brain will betray. You know, it's like I felt very, very depressed, but. And when you feel very depressed, it makes it feel like it's always going to be like that. You're always going to feel like this. And I've seen that a million times with people. And it's just a cognitive distortion common for depression, where you just feel like it's always going to be this way. And I knew that wasn't going to be the case. I was experiencing it, I was thinking it, But I also knew that my brain wasn't necessarily telling me the right story. So knowing that the brain would kind of create errors as it's trying to organize a story regarding everything that's going on with me, and it's running around trying to kind of piece together a story that could possibly make sense for my experience. And quite frankly, there's just a lot of errors that come with that experience. The brain gets it wrong a lot of times. And so all the time for all of us. I mean, and I think every one of our listeners can say this isn't true, but yet we believe it. Yes, absolutely. Because ultimately, at the end of the day, it's like we recycle a lot of. We can't tell the future. It's impossible. We can make guesses at it. And that's what the brain does. It guesses at the future based on the past. And it just recycles a lot of content day after day after day with a lot of the same information. So 80% of your thoughts today could be thoughts of yesterday. And so. And it makes it easier to predict what's going to happen next because it's familiar. And that's one of the reasons why the brain likes familiar, because familiar is very, very safe. But what happens when the world that you were living is no longer the world that you inhabit now? And so there is no familiar to this. And it took a long time to kind of get my grounding to this is my now familiar state. So I have nerve pain in my head and my foot. It. At first it was, you know, running around trying every little thing. You know, multiple podiatrists, you know, injections. I try this, I try that. I tried all these different things. And then I say, fine, you can be here. I don't have to get rid of you. It's like you're chronic. And so this is just the way it's going to be. But, you know, and one of the things I always, always try to promote is a sense of allowing. You allow your thoughts, you allow your sensations. You watch, you observe. But one of the first things that I always try to do is try to encourage people to allow their thoughts and allow their emotions to be present and to be there and not to kind of artificially kind of, kind of cut them out or kind of get rid of them. A lot of people will say, I'm thinking too negative. I need to kind of stop that. It's like, no, you know, you need to listen to it. You know, it's. Those are thoughts. You know, we're using all the crayons in the crayon box, and that's just one part of you. And we don't cut out parts. Now we want to expand our window of awareness so we can see the negative, the neutral, the positive, positive, whatever it may be, but we're not getting rid of the negative. That's not what we do. Sometimes we need to live in it and. And acknowledge it's there. Right now I'm going through. I'm going through a period of grief. I lost my mother a little over two weeks ago. Oh, I'm sorry. And what you said there really resonates with me because Sunday I was angry, and no one. I was just angry. And I knew, okay, this isn't me. This isn't true. I don't know what the heck it is. So I got out. I went for a couple of walks. That didn't change it. Yes. Still angry. And eventually in the evening, I went to the gym with my son and I felt better. I don't know it was because of the gym or it was just because I needed to be in that state and I just needed to allow the time and the grace to say, this is it. I. And it just went away. Or it went away as a byproduct of the. The. Of working out. All I know is I accepted it. I didn't. Yes. I didn't try to push. I did. Well, I did try to push it away, but we all do. But, you know, it doesn't work. No, you know what. What we resist persists. So. Yes. Yeah. So sometimes we gotta live in it and accept it. Like. And you, you've accepted your new reality? Yeah, I have an incurable immune disorder. I have chronic pain and I have food allergies, which doesn't sound too terrible, but if I deviate from it, I can't sleep. You know, it's like I, I can, I can get myself into kind of trouble if I, if I think, okay, you know, you know, I want this, you know, piece of cake. I, there's probably five different ingredients in that cake that I can't really eat, you know, otherwise my body activates to it. That's why I can't sleep. And I was like, no, I gotta play by the rules. Life, I can make life work, but I have to play by the rules. And whether or not it's fair or not, you know, it doesn't matter. These are the rules. And sometimes the, with the food allergies, it didn't start that way. That emerged quite a few years after the fact out of nowhere. And I had a itchy scalp that just would not resolve. I was losing hair. I was having all these different problems and going to these different doctors and you know, they weren't really helping me. And it was my immunologist that did some delayed allergy testing. And so like, well, you can't eat dairy. Eggs, corn, coconut, you know, you know, oats, you know, whe, this, this and that. And then it's like once I, once I cut out those foods, you know, which were like my main foods, my body began to work better and I wasn't having that itchy scalp and those allergic reactions. If I drink alcohol, any alcohol, I cannot sleep. I cannot sleep at all whatsoever. And so, okay, no alcohol. So I haven't had alcohol in a decade. And so it's just, I, I wasn't much of a drinker before that, but you know, occasionally I would have a drink. Can't, can't do that. It doesn't work. My body, my body won't allow it. By the rules. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And yeah, no, go ahead. Oh, I was just gonna say, I could say it's unfair, but it just is what it is. And the more that I kind of wrestle with this idea of fairness, the. It just creates resentments that, you know, I can't fix. I have to accept, I, I have to accept for that is the most self compassionate path that I could possibly take. I think a lot of people wrestle with that, that we don't accept the hand that we're dealt with and we try to fight it. Absolutely. Like it all the time. I mean, some of the things I've seen myself go through in the last few years, we don't accept. And, and what did you say a moment ago? Persists. Whatever you resist will persist. Yeah, yeah. Like, I mean, what you said is so true. People need to accept, accept now you can accept within reason, like what you've been handed. And, and there's times where you need to push away from that. But like when, when it's black and white, you have to accept that there's no, no going back. But when somebody's giving you their perception of what their reality is, you can resist. I believe you can resist that. But when it's something black. Right. You resist. Yes. And when you're talking to yourself, it's like, I don't want to accept that this is my way for, you know, my entire life. You can always say to yourself, I accept it for right now, I accept it for today. You don't have to say that I accept it for a lifetime. You can, I would probably say some things I accept for the day, for the hour, and sometimes for the lifetime. But it doesn't have to be a blanket. I just accept it can be today. I'm just accepting it for today. You're just not wrestling. And then you can revisit whether or not you want to accept it tomorrow. Room. But you give yourself that grace in that moment for that day and just makes it a little bit easier. Because the brain's a problem solving machine. That's what it does. It solves problems. And you're basically saying, we're not going to try to solve this problem. Once you say that I'm going to accept this for today or for a lifetime, you're just saying this is not a problem that we're working on. And this is not something that we're going to put forth a lot of mental effort into fixing this. This is just the way it is. It's a static variable and it's not moving. So the idea is to be able to take a step back because we get frustrated when we can't fix. The loop opens. When the problem emerges and we're trying to close the loop, we're trying to solve the problem. And when we can't close the loop, we just become frustrated, frustrated, frustrated, and our quality of life is diminished. So the idea is that we improve the quality of life by accepting the thing that cannot be closed. I, I've never heard that expressed that way before. I needed to hear that. And yeah. Our brain is so powerful and we can just close the loop for that day. Yes. Put the mental energy to something else, you know? Yes. Yeah. What's the next problem? You know, what's, what's. And, and I always tell people it's like, go and clean up that one drawer in your house. Clean up the stuff underneath the sink. Go wash the car. Go clean the drawer next to your bed. Take any action that you possibly can because you're going to feel better. Because then you're engaged in this problem. Whether it's the car or a drawer that needs to be organized or your closet, you will be feeling as though that you're getting things done. You're going to feel accomplished. Yeah, I do that at home. I. If I'm going to the basement and something else needs to go in the basement, I'll take one thing 1% better every time. Yes. Like, yes. Yeah. Any action is going to help with anxiety. Sometimes we think we need to take action directly on the thing that's causing the anxiety. We don't. Any kind of action is sufficient for. Because again, it's just a matter of what's the problem that we're attending to. What's the problem that the mind is focused on? Okay, there's this problem, you know, let's just say it's taxes. It's like, okay, but I can't do anything about that right this second. So let me focus on my drawer and you will feel better by diverting your energy and attention to a problem that can be solved. That's why I, you know, I'm guilty of this. I love to play solitaire, Sudoku, wordle, these different word or number games because they're just all problems that I can solve and I don't even put it on the most difficult level. When I'm playing sudoku, I like to put it on just easier medium. And it just gives my brain this place to go where I know I can. It's a problem, you know, which number in which box, but I can solve it. And so it is kind of satiating for the brain. Yeah, I have to try that. So, Jeff, one of the things I've learned, often the hardest part of change isn't the event itself. It's who we become afterwards. Who do you think you were before the illness? Before the illness, I was a devoted individual that was focused on the needs of others. Never a perfect person. Kind of always been an anxious person throughout my entire life. But I was hard working, diligent. But like I said before, I Didn't have a lot of layers, didn't have a lot of hobbies, didn't have a lot of. And so kind of a one note song in that respect. Yeah. So with that in mind, who did you become specifically afterwards? Like the, like, I like. Yeah, I like to say to people that, you know, life shatters and then we take the shards of life and then we make a mosaic out of it. So I became much more of a helper in different ways. I have a podcast, I have books. I connect to people in different ways. I. I'm more activ. In terms of trying to build a community, trying to give back and reach people in different ways. So I've kind of expanded that interest and didn't put it all in terms of one on one contact. I still like one on one contact. I do some chronic illness coaching for individuals kind of navigating, you know, this change, this transition into the world of chronic illness. But I think I have more layers, I have more curiosities. I have more curiosities for myself and for my own story than probably I ever did in my entire life. And I value slowing things down. I value the idea of less and stillness in ways that I really hadn't in the past. I was kind of in that, you know, culture says and culture rewards financially in different ways. Productivity be more productive, more, more, more. And kind of got swept away within the currents of that kind of cultural expectation. And. And I've really kind of slowed things down in many respects so that I can appreciate sitting out back and just staring at the tree in the wind. I could sit for an hour and probably not move much of an inch. Just watching waves or watching some sort of stream go by in front of me. I can really, truly appreciate much more of the world around me than probably I ever did in my entire life. Yeah, I can relate to that myself. I remember working the 15 hour days, 16 hour days and now sure. The. The word of the word for my. For myself this year is steady much. Yes. You said get out nature. Appreciate the quiet. It's not always about the grind. No. It's about who you can become or how much of an impact you can make. Yes. You know, and what, what can you do? How can you improve yourself? What was the hard like in all of that change? What was the hardest part of, you know, of your old identity that you had to let go? What was the hardest part? Having a predictable body. Having something where I didn't really have to attend to my body. Now I'm kind of constantly Distracted by my body with the pain, and I have to do these infusions and I have to. I never. I didn't even have a gp, you know, I didn't have a general. General practitioner. I didn't really go to the doctor much. I was never really sick. And now I have a specialty pharmacy that ships in my medication and they call me and I have to go to these doctor's appointments and I have to do more blood work and I have to do all these different things to kind of do this caretaker, maintenance of this body, and I have to be. And now it's like I have lots of sinus infections. I can get vertigo at times. I have to be aware of these food sensitivities because things can go sideways if I don't. So there's just a lot before, it's just like I could eat mindlessly, just whatever comes up, you know, it's like I. I had. I had a predictable path, and now it's far less predictable. Yeah. Why, in all of that, there must have been a part where you couldn't accept it. Why. Why do you think when people are dealing with change, why do you think acceptance is so difficult for people? Because whatever you're accepting, there's grief attached to it and you have to let go. And people would rather stay with, you know, a familiar hell than to kind of choose a different path. People stay in relationships that are unhealthy. People stay in jobs that are unhealthy or not fulfilling because they know what that experience is like, even though they know it's miserable for them, and even though they know they don't like it, they'll stay with it because it's familiar. And all of a sudden you, like, you don't have that opportunity to stay with the familiar. The familiar is gone. And. And the only thing that's left is whether or not you're going to accept the fact that it's gone, or you create the illusion as though it's just about to come back. It's right on the. You know, it's the. The next corner you take, you'll see it right there and say, no, it's gone. And. But there's grief to that, and there's fear associated with, well, what am I going to do now? Who am I going to become now? What's this story look like? Like, what's the new path? What's the new story and the courage to accept it and, you know, take that first step forward to. Into the new identity, and that's the Curiosity, the curiosity of, you know, what else exists? What are other people doing? What are other people saying? What. How do other people express themselves? You know, reading books, listening to podcasts, you know, absorbing the stories. I love. Love biographies, autobiographies. I love the stories of other people. I love that they all fall down at some point. No story would be very interesting if you don't fall down. But then it's always rebuilding ourselves. Absolutely, you know. Absolutely. And then there's a new opportunity. You know, you're not, you know, you're not obligated to be the person that you were five minutes ago. And so you can rebuild halfway through the day. Day. And, you know, I'm not saying it's easy. You know, it sounds kind of flippant, but it's kind of like it's possible you can decide. It's like, no, I don't want to do this anymore. This is not the path that I want to go down. And instead, it's what's interesting. And there's some people, you know, it's often the appreciation of the balance, of less. Of stillness, you know, where people kind of come to. They start meditating, they start drawing, they start, you know, finding these artistic endeavors. They find more community and friendship. Because our modern. Modern society has us very isolated. We don't have as much community as we should, and we're not really kind of like, oftentimes tied in meaningfully to, like, the work that we're doing. So, you know, with this modern society, we become little units of production, but it's not really satiating to our soul to kind of who we are and what serves us. We're serving the master of the economy and keeping things moving along. But sometimes it's okay to say, yeah, but what about me? What is it that I want? What is it that I need? Do I need less people in my life? Do I need to cut certain people out? Do I need to seek out other people? Do I need to go volunteer? Do I need to go find different communities? Is it a religious one? Is it a social endeavor one? Is it, you need a bowling league in your life, whatever it may be? And it is that curiosity of being golden. I hope everyone pays special attention to that and ask yourself those questions. But, Jeff, what serves your soul right now, this today? Finding any way to reach other people, to engage in conversations and to kind of be of service, you know, the way that I can, whether it's to my family, whether it's to the community, whether to the greater community of people with Chronic illness. It's a matter of this sense of openness where I can scan the horizon, of, okay, where could I fit in and where could I make a difference? And when I feel as though I'm making a difference and I'm getting feedback that I'm making. Oh, the words that you said in the podcast were so helpful. That's really what I needed. Or I'm talking to someone on an individual basis or, or maybe I'm just driving, you know, a kid somewhere and, you know, and they appreciate that I picked them up late, whatever it is. I'm always looking for all the different ways that I can be of, of service to others, but in different ways. And it's not being that one trick pony of like, let me put in 12 to 15 hours into this one job, into this one career path, into this one thing, and making sure that I'm also, also going for walks, that I am spending some time in nature, that I am outside, that I am doing these other things. Because at the end of the day, there will be no more sunsets, you know. You know, the story ends. Yeah. And the story does. The sun does set someday. It absolutely does. And so are you paying attention to the sunsets now? Are you paying attention to, you know, really carving out time to spend time with family or friends? It's like, oh yeah, it would be easier to work another 12 hours and not have dinner with the family. Oh yeah, it's easy, you know, not to call that friend because I don't know if that friend is available. I don't know if it would be inconvenience. I don't know if that person. No. Reach out to them, you know, talk to them. It's like, engage, engage, engage, engage engine it. The world is too easily avoidant. We underestimate how important we are to each other. Oh yes, like I, I, I, I recognize that in so many different ways in just going to the grocery store, connecting with the cashier, or a moment where I sent a message to somebody, I was thinking of them, I sent them this message through text message and they sent me a message and it was a, it was just appreciation. The man messaged me back a couple days later. He said, but you have no idea how much that message meant to me. I was feeling these bouts of unworthiness and self doubt. And you sent me that message. I'll never forget that. Yes, we are so important. And what you can do or what you can say to somebody can make such a tremendous impact on somebody. Never doubt that. Yeah. Absolutely, absolutely. And you mentioned just like the casual people that we meet through our day, like the cashier at the grocery store, look them in the eye. It's really easy to walk up and just focus on your pin and your whatever rewards number. And you know, you're doing that and you don't see that person. You don't look them in the eye. You don't truly engage them. You know, really try to truly engage them and look in their eye, know their name, as simple as you could do what I did, it's the lady at Subway. She was limping, limping. Her leg was bothering. I said, I said, if you like, I can get the other leg. But yes, really engage and connect with people. Yes, absolutely. Seeing that person, does that person feel seen? Are you going to engage them in a way that is pleasant and kind and. Because oftentimes, because this is the thing, oftentimes people say, like, the person who is like, limping, they're injured or, you know, they're living life. And it's like, people say, like, they just don't know what to say. They don't know what to say. And it's like, are you present? You know, you don't have to have the magic cures for life. You don't have to have the magic cure for whatever her is causing her limp. You're not going to fix it. But are you just present in that person's life? Are you sharing a moment with that person? In sharing a moment and being present, that's rare and rare every single day, especially the world we live in today. Yes. Connected. Yes, absolutely. Moment just to be real, you know? Yes. So it doesn't have to be complicated. And the thing is, you will remember that moment and you will go, wow, that, that was. That was nice. You know, I really kind of enjoyed that because again, it goes back to, you can control the eye contact, you can control, you know, saying their name, and you can control this. And then you are engaged. And then you see that person light up. You see that get out of their role of like just being this sandwich, you know, maker. And then you see that, that person light up as a human being. And you're like, that felt nice to, you know, kind of, you know, joke around with them, talk to them, engage them. And, you know, that person kind of came alive a little bit. That was a pleasant moment. And you were the one to create it because you went in there with the intention and we have to have those intentions of, you know what? I'm going to see people in My world. And I want them to know that they're seen by me. However that is. Yeah. And there's opportunities every single day, and we sometimes we don't even recognize them. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Have you. Is there any particular moment for you that stands out that you can think of? I can think of multiple moments of just people. Again, sometimes it's that text message, you know, that they underwent a surgery and just, you know, the day after, just like, you know, how are you doing with this? Just that, like they were. Yeah. Like they weren't forgotten that they said something, I'm going into for surgery on Tuesday. And on Wednesday, you send them a text message to check in with and see how they're doing. Is there anything that they need, whatever it is. And they're like, oh, they're so appreciative because people feel forgotten, you know, because we aren't. We don't call people anymore. We just text people. You know, we don't do FaceTime. We don't do. We don't go over to people's houses, you know, like, when we were young, it's like the only way we would know where the kids are is, like, because all the bikes were in front of that house. And it's like, now the kids aren't doing that, you know, that you rarely see kids out, know, playing the same way that, like, we were, you know, I would just wander off and, you know, have adventures. How the kids don't play like that nowadays. One topic, Jeff, you talk about often as loneliness. Yes. Why? And I think that's a really good pivot from what we were talking about. About why. Why is suffering so isolating? Well, one, it's like what we were just saying, that the world is already isolating. Yeah. Yeah. And. And then you are going to be less available to go out to dinner, to go to the concert, to go do these things. And you're not that same participant because you may have pain, you may have fatigue, you. You may have just different issues that make that social engagement more difficult. People don. What to say. Oftentimes people know what to say. For the broken leg, it's like, oh, you feel better soon? Or like, here, let me. Let me, you know, let me send you some meals, you know, and. But when it's a chronic issue and it's just going to be like, oh, this is the new story for the rest of your life, they don't really know what to say because two, pain is unshareable. I can't share my pain with you. I Can give you a metaphor. It's like, oh, it's like a burning fire. You know, I'm sitting next to a campfire and it feels like my toes are a little too close to the fire and they kind of burn. I could give you that. But you don't know what it feels like. You can believe me. You cannot believe me. Maybe I don't have pain. And it's kind of like it's going to be up to you to kind of believe it. And you get into this compassion fatigue because again, we can't close the loop. But they can't close the loop either. They can't fix what ails you. So people back off and it becomes more and more isolated because you can't go out, you can't engage, engaged. You can't do the usual routine. And people want to stay with their usual routine and they're not going to usually adjust with you. And so you get left behind and you spend a lot of time by yourself. And maybe, you know, and that's exactly the time where somebody's really needing that connection action. Yes, yes. And, and again, remember, it's like you don't need to know what to say. It isn't the words. It's just being present and sharing space with that person. Talk about whatever you normally talk about, but you don't have to fix the problem at hand. And people get uncomfortable with that. They're like, well, have you tried this supplement? Have you tried this diet? Have you tried this? Have you tried this? That. And because they want to fix it because, you know, because that's what we do. Needed is presence. Yes. In a conversation. And so I, I had this question, but I'm. I'm going to bring it up just so we can tie it together when I, I think I already know the answer is just to be present. But what. What Some. Something people. People often say with good intentions that actually, oh, I. I hope you get better soon. Yeah. And so once exist and soon has this, like, you know, like this. There's a finish line for it. And it's kind of like I have an immune disorder that has no finish line other than death. And so it's kind of like there is no. It is what it is right now. And, and so get well soon would be something. Because that's a normal thing. That's normal. Oh, you have a cold, you have the flu. Oh, you had to get your gallbladder taken out. Well, get better soon because there will be a finish line that you'll kind of return Back to relative baseline. There's no baseline anymore. Yeah. The old baseline is gone. Yes. Yeah. So. So what is something that people can say that help. That would actually help more than, say. Than saying that? Ask questions, you know, with, like, I know this can be kind of a confusing time for you, but, you know, what do you need from me? You know, it's like, how. How can I be of assistance to you and. And just. Just let that person help define it so you don't have to magically. Magically come up with the answer on your own. Just ask the person. You know, just. Maybe that person's. You know, I just. I just need someone to talk about, you know, baseball with. I just. I appreciate you come over and we just talk about baseball, like the mental presence and be. Be present. Yeah, yeah. And so, you know, that's. That's. It's like, oh, okay. And then that person has kind of been given the rule book. It's like, oh, so, you know, so I. I just need to show up and kind of talk about baseball, talk about the weather, talk about politics or whatever it is. And it's like, I don't have to fix. Because there's the big elephant in the room, but it's like, I don't have to. I don't have to fix that. We could just focus on the other things, like weather and baseball, and. And like, that's all the person ultimately needs. And it's like, okay, well, I can do that. And that person is going to show up more reliably. It's like, oh, you know, it feels nice. You send a meme every once in a while. Like, you text me two or three times a week. I really appreciate those, you know, like, those silly memes that you send. Like, you know, even if it's not funny, I appreciate the fact that you thought of me, and I know that I'm not forgotten. I think. I think everybody should pay attention to that. Not. Not just the people that are chronically, you know, that are dealing with illness or suffering, but everybody, like, yes. Just. We need more connection, though, right now because we're getting close to wrapping up. Jeff, get practical for a second. Someone listening right now might feel a little overwhelmed. Maybe. Maybe they're sick or are they dealing with grief like myself, or maybe burnt out. Yes. Yeah. Burning at both ends. Or maybe it's something completely different. Where. Where would you suggest people start? First place is expressive writing. Writing. That's where you. It's like journaling, but it's like a messier version of Journaling. And so you take a pen to the paper, set a timer for 5 minutes, 10 minutes, and you just write whatever is on your mind in that moment. You're just going to write one long continuous run on sentence where grammar and spelling, punctuation, none of that exists. It is messy, it's quick. And I don't want you to think. I want you to write. So you put the pen down and you think, I don't know what to write. So you write down, I don't know what to write. And then you think, this is stupid, stupid. And then you write this as stupid. That's what I mean. Like, what? You're not writing, like, oh, you know, last yesterday I went to the market, I got some apples, and, you know, blah, blah, blah. You're not doing that. You're not reflecting back. It's whatever is going on in that moment. It is the tea petal or tea kettle, like a whistle of just kind of like the cathartic release of just put it outside yourself. Because it's too often, often that we just get into this mental, like, loop. We're just trying to chase our tail and we can't catch it, but we keep chasing and chasing and chasing and chasing. So having a routine of just. And I would say try it, you know, every single day for a week, it's just going to cost you some ink and some paper. This is not. It's. It's very accessible to lots of people, and it's called expressive writing. But here's the important thing is that once you're done, 5 minutes, 10 minutes, you're done with it, rip it up and then throw it away. Because you will be more honest with yourself, knowing that you're about to destroy this document and no one's going to find it, you're not going to read it again, no one's going to see it. You're not handing it over to anybody. You're just there to express it and then shred it, rip it up and throw it away. There's some darkness that maybe we don't want other people to know about. And maybe it's darkness that even frightens us a little bit. You'll be more honest with your darkness if you know that you're about to rip this up. So expressive writing, that's the very first place that I would start. Yeah, that's awesome. Last question for before we wrap up. How do you. I want to ask you this. How do you. How do you personally handle your difficult day? So, Jeff, I look to show Myself, grace, compassion, forgiveness. I look to see what can I set down, how can I make this load a little less heavy? And I'm not as harsh with my must, shoulds, have to's, because I may be holding things that I don't necessarily need to be holding and it doesn't mean no value whatsoever to be holding, holding. So I look to do that. I try to slow things down. One of the simple things that I'll do, I have an acupressure mat put on my bed and I'll lay on the acupressure mat and I'll listen to some really relaxing music. I will value slowing it down as much as possible and having that stillness of the acupressure mat. Maybe doing some breathing, eating, exercise, listening to some relaxing music and realizing that there's tremendous value in doing less. What can I let go? What can I do less? And not using the accelerator for all the answers for everything. Brilliant. Yeah. There is tremendous value in doing less. 100%. So I want to. I could have gone on so much longer with you and I really appreciate you coming today, Jeff. Oh, not a problem at all. Yeah. Before we, before we tell people how to find you, I want to do something a little fun. I want to ask you rapid fire questions. Sure. Just tell me the first thing that comes to your mind. Okay. I'll try my best there. And 100%, that's all we can do. What's one book that's changed your life? The Four Agreements. The four. Okay. What's something you believe today that you didn't believe 10 years ago? Doing less is more valuable. Right on. What's one misconcept. What's one misconception people have about resilience? That you can't cry, that you have to be emotionally, you know, stoic. And you can be resilient as all heck and be trembling and be tearful. Yeah. What's one thing people misunderstand about suffering? That there they don't see that there is value in the dark nights of the soul. They try to get rid of suffering as quickly as possible rather than spending some time of listening to suffering and to see what it can teach you. Yeah, There's a lot of strength in that. What, what, what does living well mean to you today? Wanting less. The quickest way to get rich is to want less and to really work by the essentials of life. I always thought that I always had to get a nicer car. If you're going to get a car, you have to get the nicer trim or the nicer this. And now I see that that's, you know, that's not necessary. I don't need to want these things. What are. What are the things that I want? You know, and it's community and love. You know, it's like the trim level. Whether my car seats are fabric or leather really has no bearing in my quality of life. Whether or not I have community or love in my life, that is what makes the difference. What brings you home? Hope that I've survived all the dark nights in the past. Hey, when people remember Jeffrey Bone, what do you hope they remember? He was an imperfectly nice person. Love it. So, Jeff, how do people find you? They can go to D R B O N e Live. That's Dr. Bone Live. And that's just my website. And if they want to reach out, that's the easiest way to go. Okay. And can they find you on LinkedIn or Instagram as well? Yes, well, I'm more active on threads and it's, you know, it's Restless Human Studio is the hand handle this one of my books, the Restless Human. But the easiest way to get hold of me is drbone Live. Awesome. Jeff, I want to really appreciate. I tell you how much I appreciate you being with us today. Well, thank you very much for having me. It was a pleasure to have you. Thank you. Oh, thank you. Thanks for tuning in to the adaptive mindset. If you found value in today's episode, don't forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with someone who's ready to thrive in the digital age. Stay secure, stay adaptable, and I'll see you next time.