Welcome to the Adaptive Mindset. I'm Brett Gallant, cybersecurity thought leader and founder of Adaptive office Solutions. Here we don't just talk tech. We unlock the strategies, stories, and mindset shifts. You need to stay secure, lead boldly, and thrive in a digital world. Let's get started. Welcome back to the Adaptive Mindset. Today's guest helped shape modern human performance. Dr. Jack Groppel has worked with the Olympic athletes, Fortune 50 executives, Nike, the Chicago White Sox, and even some hockey, hockey superstars, and some of the highest performers on the planet. But after decades spent helping people perform at elite levels, he discovered something surprising. Achievement alone doesn't create fulfillment. In his new book, mountains Within, Jack shares the story of how success, recognition, and accomplishment weren't enough. And how fatherhood, faith, and a climb up Mount Kilimanjaro with his adopted son changed everything. Jack, welcome to the Adaptive Mindset. It's nice to be with you, Brett. Thanks for having me. It's such a pleasure. Thank you. We had a. We had a little discussion before. Before this, and I shared. Shared some things going on in my life and. And there was a hesitation at first of recording this, but I believe conversations and people come into your world for a reason. I know this conversation with me personally and with our guests is going to be impactful, so thank you. I hope so. So, Jack, when did you first realize achieve achievement wasn't connected to approval? Oh, that's a. That's an interesting question. When achievement wasn't connected to approval? That was a long time. A long, long time. Because, see, it happened. It was formed at a very early age. My father was a difficult man. He was a hard charger. He definitely believed, spare the rod, spoil the child. And I mean, after one particular beating, instead of cowering I in my brain, for whatever reason, I said, I'll prove it to you how good I am. And that was the beginning. At age 6, I mean, and then at age 13, I was an Eagle Scout. And that's ridiculous. I mean, whoever heard of that? And I intentionally received my Eagle one week before I turned 14 just to prove dad that it could be done. And so a lot of people think that this happens later in life. No, no, for me, it happened really early, that I was just driven to try to earn my dad's love, to earn his approval. And because I saw him understand his own success, because my father was both the hero and the villain of my story. The fact that he owned 21 beagles, he owned 21 dogs, and he trained them in field trials. And when we had to move from one community to another, dad couldn't take the dogs with us. And he had one dog. And Dad's name. The name of Dad's kennel was Shady Dale Kennel, and he named the dog after President Eisenhower. So the dog's name, Shady Dale Ike. And Ike was a national champion. Yeah. And dad, in 1959, we drove to Niagara Falls, and I watched dad Exchange ike for $900. In 1959, you're dealing with 20 to$25,000 in today's money. Wow. At that. And I was blown away at that. Like, here my dad's selling a dog that he loved and admired. I mean, there's a picture in the book, in my memoir of me at age 5 with my sister holding Ike with all of Ike's trophies and ribbons. And people can look this up, by the way. Shady Dale Ike. I mean, it's in historical archives. And then Ike sired seven other national champions. Later on, we found out. After my mom passed away, I was able to do the research and find out about Ike's lineage. But that was the beginning. But then how did I recognize it? I don't know. I think I was in my late 40s, and I was so upset one day at my father that we had a confrontation. And I advocated for myself, and I forced him for the first time, to. To say the words, I love you to me. And that was when I realized I no longer had to please my earthly father anymore. And that was. That was. But it was in my late 40s, mid to late 40s, that. What an accomplishment, though. And I. I can relate to that. I have a. I have a background complicated with my father as well, the Eagle Scout. Accomplishing that just to prove that you could do it. Yeah, everything was just to prove. I had no tennis lessons, yet I walked on in the Big Ten at the University of Illinois. I walked on and made the team. And dad made me study agriculture. So I got a degree that I never wanted to please a man, that I was trying to earn love from, to play the sport that I loved competitively. And then, I mean, it was just crazy, because if I don't make the team at the University of Illinois, what path am I going to follow? Because then I made the team, and then I couldn't get a job. My undergraduate degree was in wildlife biology. So the joke in my family is that if I'd be counting wolves in Wyoming, if I follow this, which wouldn't be a bad job, by the way, that would be kind of cool. Yeah, the. But I. So I started grad school in population genetics here. So. But I'm. What I was doing, Brett, was I had to go to a laboratory four or five days a week to change the flower in test tubes. So these little beetle called flower beetles, tribalium beetle, so they could reproduce more rapidly. When you're studying population genetics, you have to look at generations and look at lineage and like, how. Then you might look at how pesticides affect generations of those beetles. Anyway, here I am, 22, and I lovingly describe my job as creating a romantic environment for Beatles to have sex. And, you know. And I'm crying myself to sleep at night. Talk about adaptive mindset, my friend. Title of your podcast. I cried myself to sleep. And one night, I'll never forget, I called my sister and I was in tears, 22 years of age, lost, absolutely lost. And she said, why don't you go talk to the people in physical education? And I said, well, dad will kill me. He didn't think that was a viable field. And it wasn't as famous as it is now, the kinesiology field and exercise physiology. It was really starting to just create the boon at that point. But graciously, the head of the department met with me and they admitted me to the master's of science program. And he said, well, does this work? And he said, you're going to have to take Kinese Exercise Physiology and Human Cadaver Anatomy your first semester. And I'm going. Okay. I'm not worried about the courses. I don't know how I'm going to pay for it. That's what I said to him. And he said, well, you played tennis here at the university? Yes. Well, here's. I need somebody to teach my activity classes in tennis. So what I'm going to do, I'm going to waive your tuition and fees, and we're going to give you a small stipend. Would that help you? And I'm going, oh, my gosh. Because I knew as soon as I called dad that night, I was going to get cut off. And he did cut me off. And I said, don't worry, dad, I've got it. And he was blown away that I had already handled it. He cut you? Yeah. Oh, I was no longer funded. He wasn't going to pay for physical education. Yeah, Because I was in a viable field. I was in population genetics. I was. I was in. I was good at. I was doing something that mattered. Now I'm in physical education. And in his mind, that wasn't a viable Career. So at the end of my first semester, I got straight A's, by the way. I fell in love with talking about again, an adaptive mindset. Yes. No, you didn't. You didn't need. You wanted his approval, but you didn't need his approval. Correct to. Because you, you knew. And I think, I think so many times there's a lot of people out there that were waiting. Waiting for someone's approval to step into what. What their destined. What they'll ultimately be happy for. But you went for it. Well, again, changed. But there was this little part of me that he didn't want to believe in it. And I'm going, watch me, watch me. And I had no idea what that meant. Yeah. But then at the end of my first semester, my kinesiology professor, Dr. Charles Dillman, who became a mentor to me throughout his entire life, Chuck, as I came to know him, he said 17 words to me. And last year I received the distinguished alumni award at the University of Illinois. And they quoted these 17 words because this, this set me off on my career. He said, if you apply yourself, you could become a pioneering leader in the science of tennis performance. Yes. And I said, done. I'm gonna do it. So there was no career. There was nothing. I just. I just said, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna be that person. I'm gonna be that. Well, you had that mindset from. Right from your. Yeah, from the get go. It was like when you set your mind to it, unstoppable. Even though I had no idea what I was going to do, I had no idea, but I just knew I was going to be the best at it. And that meant. And this, this is for your listeners. That meant that once I stepped into it, I realized that everything I did had to be of the highest quality possible. I couldn't shortcut anything because nobody understood it. Nobody knew who. Sports science was new and not nearly what it is in today's world. And I knew that everything I did had to be the highest quality possible. And Chuck was a great mentor. Chuck became the first director of sports science for the US Olympic Training center, by the way, right after that. So he was. I had a. I had an incredible mentor in Chuck. And so then I did my master's thesis in tennis and I. High speed cinematography. I'm, you know, I'm one of the first ones to ever do this. Looking at ball spin. And I got my master's and then I go right to Florida state for my Ph.D. and ironically, my turn, director of my Dissertation. Terry Ward was a tremendous teacher and researcher, but he was young in his career. He didn't have doctoral director status. So as, as fate would have it, as God would have it, or whatever you want to say. The director of My dissertation was Dr. Robert Singer, who, who was basically one of the world's most renowned sports psychologists and motor learning specialists. So right away I'm mentored by, by the best in the world in biomechanics in Chuck, the best in the world in psychology and learning theory in Bob and Terry, that I'm getting my PhD in exercise physiology and bioengineering. So I'm getting a multidisciplinary approach to human performance right from the get go without even trying. Was that what's interesting about that? I'm in a season in my life, Jack, where I'm challenging myself to get in bigger rooms. Okay, and was that by accident that you got in that room that you just had the, the good fortune of having those incredible mentors? Well, I'm a big believer that luck equals opportunity plus preparation. Right. If you. Yeah. And you have to recognize it. Sometimes we don't even recognize. I think sometimes I, I've seen it in my own journey and people I know they've had, people have had an incredible opportunity and they don't recognize it or seize the opportunity. So yeah, it's, it's like we, when, when my son and I were on Mount Kilimanjaro and. Which is the basis of the book. I mean you gotta understand, I was 65 years old. Artificial knees. Both knees. Artificial knees. And, and my son was 12 years old. Yes. And, and we took that mountain on as an adventure together. And I will tell you, my sanity was questioned. But what an adventure to do with your, as an older father with your 12 year old son. And, but that I didn't know we were going to, I mean it was, that was, that's, that's the story of my life. I never knew I was going to be successful. But if you think about my, and I'm not bragging by the way, with what I'm going to say right now. No, no, I can relate. I, I, I have a similar. Yeah. What I want to do is give your listeners and your viewers hope because at whatever it is when it presents itself. And again, so it's coming from that perspective, not braggad. But I never had, I never had a tennis lesson yet. I played in the, I'm in three tennis coaches halls of fame, but I never had a tennis lesson. Growing up I taught myself to play. I never had a business class, yet I started a business with one other person with our own money, and 15 years later we sold it to a Fortune 50 company, to Johnson and Johnson. But I never had a business class. I never had a speaking class, yet I've been spoken in 52 countries and I've spoken in front of live audiences, as many as 30,000 in an arena, you know, following Christopher Reeve and preceding Margaret Thatcher. Nobody, I'm a, I'm a bathroom break. You know, nobody knows who I am. But my point in telling that is that you, that mountain might be in front of you. And that's why I love the metaphor of mountains within. But take that first step. Yes. You know, take that and then take the next step. Well, that's. I. And I live that myself, Jack. For, for me specifically, I had, I've had an incredible health transformation. I was 349 pounds. Oh my. Yeah. And I, I made the decision that I was going to take the first step every day. And then, then. And it was something simple as I'm going to walk around the block for 10 minutes and yes, I'm going to stop, but the next time I go, I'm going to go a little further without getting out of breath. And we all have that mountain to climb. Like I love your metaphor because sometimes we see the mountain and we never have the courage to take the step. You know, and that courage is actually the mountain within is having the courage to take the step. It's not. We, yeah, we have that goal. We want to be like, we want to be a professional speaker. I think that happens a lot. And yes, we don't, we don't know how to take that step. I mean, speak in front of your church, speak at Rotary Club, speak, just speak. Just start giving talks and the thing start showing up. A good friend of mine says who's missing out because you're not showing up? That's right. 100. Yep. Yeah, I agree. So that's kind of how my career started. And then, you know, and then, and then it is all this wild worldly success. But. But then. And that's the whole purpose of my book though. But at what cost? So the book deals with. I mean I'm multiple marriages because I was never role modeled what love looked like between a man and a woman. I was, I was in love. If you. I mean I never questioned the fact that I was in love, but I didn't know how to give energy to another human being who I loved. All I knew was do the job, do the work and be the best you can. But I balance that comes with a good, solid relationship. 100. So I really struggled. And then it was. I hit rock bottom. I almost died in 1996. I was in the hospital and only one person outside my family visited me in 15 days. And I had a thick line into my heart. I almost bought the farm and I just said, well, this has got to change because I'm not putting energy into other people. Yes. So part of the adaptive mindset now was I had to put energy into other people's lives. I had to care and fill them up. Fill people up. Yes. Yeah. I had to love other people with agape love, unconditional love. And I'd never learned to do that. And then I got on a path toward my faith. And then the real coup d' etat was going to China by myself in 2008 to adopt my son. And I was by myself. And this is where I said that God has a sense of humor. He's going to send this man in his 50s to China and he can't speak Mandarin and the child can't speak English and they're going to put this screaming 4 year old in his arms that is terrified. And we're going to teach you two how to love each other. Yeah. I'm speechless. Like, like. But you recognize you needed to change and that, and that takes a lot of courage. Yeah. Well, it was either change or buy the farm. A loner alone. Yeah. You know, I didn't want to be alone. I didn't, I did. But I didn't know how to be with others. I knew how to perform. I knew how to get a job done. But you're looking back right now who you are today. What would you say to that man before. Ask yourself what matters most in your life right now, before you make that decision to get on another plane to go to a meeting, ask yourself what matters most right now. Is it worth the extra contract? 100%. Yeah. Yeah. Because life is, life means so much more than that, you know, it really does. Yeah. I, I've learned that, you know, being a father of five, missing some of my oldest daughter's sports events and that I don't do that anymore. But I, I had, I'm sharing this just for the benefit of our listeners and, and for you because I, I see some similar paths that we have. I, I had the great privilege of being nominated for a Mastermind of Wallace McCain Institute. Oh, wow. It was a great privilege. And I was, I, out of 200 applicants. There was 24 that made the finalists. I was one of them. Wow. The same weekend, my daughter's hockey tournament in a city four hours away. I. I told them up front that I can be there for the weekend, but I can't be present for the whole event. I can do this and that. I, I regret that I wasn't able to attend the whole event, but I don't regret for a minute that I was not present with my daughter for a tournament. Yeah. When I retired. I have a similar. When I retired from Johnson and Johnson. Yeah, I was, I was a. I could have easily gotten with speakers bureaus. I could have easily made a lot of money traveling, speaking and representing myself. And easily. It would have been an easy transformation. And I will tell you flat out at my retire retirement party with hundreds of people from J and J. And my son was there, friends had flown in. I said publicly that for the next four years while he was going to be in high school, because his mom and I had separated, we weren't together. And I said, I promise you, I am not getting on a plane the next four years for business of any type. And I didn't do it. I turned out a lot of money. Yeah, but look what you built with your son. 100%. That's exactly right. Yeah. Is that during that same period? Was that after or before you climbed Kilimanjaro with. That was after Kilimanjaro. Okay. Okay. So we had already created the bond of that adventure together. Yeah. Incredible. But you, you recognized from everything you've learned, you had the mindset that, hey, this is where I need to be. This is the win. Pour into my son. Pour into that relationship. Right? Yeah. That's what I had to do. I had to. There was no. There was. In fact, it wasn't even an option. It was a non negotiable. It was a non negotiable at that time. See, but I had to learn this in my life because. Past pain. Yeah. Because see, I bought in. Supposed to be the breadwinner. I'm supposed to be the one earning all the money. I'm supposed to be the one achieving. But I've also got to earn my dad's love. Dad will love me if I do this, If I get this. How am I doing, dad? How am I doing, dad? Yeah. And I'll tell you, I mean, I don't mind that you know this, because I do. I do say this in the book. The actual coup d' etat between my father and I happened in the late 90s. And I was in St. Louis, my home near my hometown. And we were in the big arena where the blues play. And so it was sold out. 20,000 people live. Nobody knows who I am. I'm following the very famous radio broadcaster, Paul Harvey, and I'm preceding Mikhail Gorbachev, the former President of the Soviet Union. So now I go on stage and I tell everybody that I'm a hometown guy, I'm from the area, and mom and dad are in the arena. I proceeded, Brett, to give the talk of my life. I got a standing ovation from 20,000 people. I walk off stage, I meet President Gorbachev, shake his hand, and then I go up into the arena, and I'm going to sign an autograph. Books. And there's a. There's a hundred people lined up to get a book and to talk to me. Mom and dad are there. We get a picture, and then I look at my dad. And this is. This is exactly how it all went down. Now, remember, I've worked my whole life. And this is. This is. I've never heard anything bigger than this. Yeah. Yeah, this is it. And I said, dad, what'd you think? Quote, son, you're pretty good, but Paul Harvey was by far the best speaker of the whole day. Holy crap. And I said. I actually cursed. I said, you've got to be effing kidding me. I mean, that's what I was saying inside my head. Yeah. Because I. And in my brain, I'm just going, I'm never going to do anything bigger than this. And everybody in my family, mom, my sister heard about it. Everybody just jumped all over my dad. That, like, for once, you couldn't have said he was the best, you know, for once, you couldn't have done that. And that. That was the night then. Because that was our home, like, and every child, you know, and you're the child, dad. See me. See me. Yeah. And that was that night that I said, you can't even say the words I love you. And I said. And he said, you know how I feel. I said, sam, say the words. Yeah. And I made him say him that night. And then. Then after that, he. It broke the ice, and he was able to say I love you before I did the last 10 years of his life. Really? Yeah. That. That did that moment. But it was that moment. It took your relationship. It took that level of incongruence, that level of disconnect to connect us. I. I think this might be a moment that everybody needs to hear, because every. I don't care who you are. Somebody somewhere has a relationship that's broken or right. And, and you have to have that just for your own peace. You have to have that level of honesty and that, that I call it fierce conversation, unnecessary conversation. Right. Look, what would have happened if you never had that conversation with your dad? We would have been okay. I mean, I realized it was icy. I know, but you would have been okay. But, but what did you get after that conversation? Well, there was reconciliation. I mean, where here your dad going, I love you before you have to say it or force him to say it. You know, where he's, where he's humbled himself and he realizes, oh, yeah, and then mom passed away before he did, which we never thought would happen because he was just beat up. And then mom passed away suddenly. And then I became his caregiver, basically for three years. Yeah. And, yeah, it, you know, and he was an alcoholic. I mean, here he is in an assisted living and they've got to lock up his alcohol and they have to call me when he gets a drink every day. You know, I mean, it's just the weirdest thing in the world to reverse role. I, I, I, I understand. I was living that for the last year with my mother, so. I know. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Look at, like, I just find that incredible that at least you had the courage to have that talk with dad. Yeah. And I think, you know, that's the memoir I wrote. Yeah. This huge success that everybody wants to hear about in sports, science, and all the fun stories. I mean, the famous athletes and everything. But at what cost? And that's why the book, I think, is so. It's a very dramatic book. You'll laugh, you'll cry. You'll be on this adventure with me. And then the whole book opens on Mount Kilimanjaro, reflecting on my life, and then the book ends at the summit. But in between then is my life that was all this worldly, unbelievable, but all the mess, too. And it's this whole story that, But I just hope the feedback that I'm getting in the reviews is very positive. People are really enjoying being on that journey with me and taking away the idea of mentoring and the idea of having hope, the idea of understanding what is possible in your life. I think people underestimate what's possible. Right. I agree. And you're an example of it. Spitting example, you know, and I like to say to people, you know, and I got to be really careful because how that when this comes out, it sounds like just motivational Speak. So I need to back it up a little bit. Yes. I truly believe that within your God given talent and the skills you develop, you can be anything you want. Now what do I mean by that? And I'll just give you the best word picture. Everybody knows who Shaquille O' Neal is. Over 7ft tall, over 300 pounds. Not be a jockey in the Kentucky Derby. No, no, no, no. You see that's. But that's. We have to be real. Yeah, likewise, a jockey in the Kentucky Derby couldn't be a center in the NBA. So the idea that, see the God given talent, that's that part of it. So within your God given talent, whatever it is, like you want to be a speaker. Try it. You don't know if you're not a good. You might be a great speaker. You might be the one of the most unbelievable storytellers born to humankind. But you got to put the rappers in, though. If you never put the. The reps in, you're never going to get there. 100% step. You got to take the first step. And that was what my son and I did on Kilimanjaro. Never forget this. And I tell this whole story in the book that on at the end of day two, it been cloudy. We hadn't seen the mountain, and all of a sudden the clouds cleared and we saw the mountain for the first time. And we're still four days away from summiting. And you see it and you just go, you got to be freaking kidding me. First of all, it's too high. We're already at 12,000 or 13,000ft and I'm dying. I mean, that's how you feel? It's 65. Yeah, yeah. You know, and it's just under 20,000ft and it's far and it's still way far away. And you just go, there's no way. But my son and I got together and we said, look, I know it looks far away and I know it looks impossible, but what we have control over. Control the controllables. That's what I teach. Control the controllables. Yep, I agree. I said we have control over taking the next step and the next step and the next step. And I said, buddy, I guarantee, I can't promise you we're going to make it there, but I can promise you that we'll give ourselves the best opportunity to make it there if we keep taking the next step. Yeah. I have a similar mindset, Jack. My favorite expression is, how do you eat an elephant one bite at a time. One piece. Exactly. You control the controllables. No hypotheticals. No. Put your best effort in one step. Yes. One decision, one mindset shift. One. Discipline. I can do it. There's proof other people have done it. Why not me? Yep, exactly 100%. Yeah. I want to go somewhere a little deep, different for a second. You talked about your son. Yeah. Shen, Fatherhood, you know, And I, I, you know, you talked about the cost, the relationships. But I, like, we're in. The early days were there. And what, what did it feel like when he didn't want anything to do with you? Well, I was scared. I mean, I was scared for him, though, too. Yeah, I was scared for him. I mean, I tell the whole story in the book, but let's, let's have, let's have a little fun with your listeners. So I'll tell you the first three or four hours they put him in my arms in the Civil affairs office in Guangzhou, China. He's screaming that he's being kidnapped. That's what he's screaming. He's so scared. Yeah, there are nannies there. They're trying to help me settle him down. I've got apple. I got apple juice. I've got toys, I've got snacks. Nothing's calming him down. We get in the bus and we're driving back to the hotel. And it's going to be a couple of hours because of the traffic. He has to go to the bathroom, he says. He says the words now to our. I don't know what that means, but the translator says he has to pee. And I said, all right. So I'm going, all right. Are we going to stop by a hotel where we can use a bathroom? No, we're. We pull over and he says, see that palm tree? Take him over there. And so here. That was my first introduction to potty training with my three and a half year old son. Was pulling his pants down and peeing on a palm tree within an hour of knowing each other. And he's scared. And we get back to the hotel room. Translator goes up to the hotel room with us, shows him a toilet. For the first time in his life, he's never seen a toilet. All they have in the orphanage is a flat receptacle in the ground to go to the bathroom. Yes. So he'd never seen a toilet before. Yeah. And I'm just going, oh, my gosh, this is going to be, you know, my brain is going all over the place. We walk out of the bathroom and the translator says, all right, Mr. Grapple, I'm sorry, but I have to leave now. I said, no, you don't. I offered a thousand dollars, Brad. I offered him $1,000 in cash. Yes, I have it. I'd have to go down to the ATM machine. I said, I'll pay you to stay for a couple more hours. He says, I can't accept your money. I'll lose my job. I've got other families I have to go take care of. He said, but before I leave, there's two things you have to know. One, he's. He's almost four years old. He knows how to unlock the door. He will try to run on you tonight. I'm going, what do I do with that? Yeah. I said, but what's number two? For goodness sakes? He says, whatever you do, don't give him a bath. And he was filthy. And I'm just going. I mean, there was cake dirt on his ankles. And he. I said, why not? He's so dirty. And he says, it'll just push him further away. Believe me, I've been in this business way too long. It'll push him further away from you if you try to bathe him tonight. And I said, all right, no bath. So he leaves. I can't take this child out in public. So we order room service. And he's trying to eat. He's still grieving. He's still crying. He's just grieving. We've pulled him from everything he was, taken from everything he knew, his environment. Yeah, 100%. And we, as. As we're. As we're eating. I'm trying to figure out the escape artist. I'm trying to figure, okay, what am I going to do if he tries to bolt on me tonight? So there was a crib in the room. And they don't. If you're an adoptive family, they don't know how old your child is. It might be an infant. So I said, okay, we're gonna. When we put the tray outside, we're gonna put the crib in front of the door. I'm a light sleeper, so if he tries to run on me, he'll have to move the crib. It'll wake me up. I'll get him before he gets out. Out. This is how I'm thinking. Yes. Yeah. So we put the tray out, put the crib in front of the door. I put him on the edge of the bed. I've got cartoons on. In Mandarin. I can't understand the thing that's on the cartoons, but he's watching the cartoons on the edge of the bed. And he's still crying. He's still just whimpering, just weeping. And I sit. It's just a hotel room with a king sized bed. And I go sit at the desk and I'm looking at my son and I prayed. I said, God, what do you want me to do? Because I have no idea what to do right now. Now. And I felt on my heart, give him a bath. Now, I did this in English. I looked up at the ceiling and I said, did you hear what the translator said? I'm going to give you one more. I'm going to ask one more time, what do you want me to do? And I was quiet and I said, and I felt, without a doubt, you've got to give him a bath. Yeah. At all costs, you got to give him a bath. Yeah. And I said, okay, here we go. So now I take it. And now. Now he's screaming again. He's scared because I'm taking. I'm taking his clothes off. Yeah. And so at that point, I say, okay, I'm not going to wash his hair. No, no soap in the eyes. I can't want to take a chance on that. I'm not going to wash his hair, and I'm not going to wash any private parts. I'm just going to do his feet and his shoulders. Just get the cake dust off his ankles and. And wash his shoulders. Yeah. Get him out of the tub. Towel him off. I put him in a pair of pajamas that I brought with me and gave him a sippy cup of apple juice. Brett. Not another tear. And he slept right next to me the entire night. Yeah. And that was the beginning of our relationship. But it was being obedient, faithfully to that signal on my heart to give him a bath. You. You heard what was in your heart. Even though every human said, don't get him. Yeah. But sometimes you got to listen to that. Yeah, you have. Yeah, that's exactly right. I had to listen to that word on my heart. Yeah. No, and sometimes, I'll be honest, there's sometimes where I've heard that and I haven't. And. But the times that you do. Oh, you know, what would have happened if he hadn't, you know, you would have changed. Could have been longer and longer and longer. Longer. You would have gotten there at some point. Yeah, but. But you had that. That must have been a special moment, though. Well, and then it got. Then we just got so close over that. 2. That was the most significant two weeks of my life, by the way. I Mean, here we are the second week that you're there, and the first week, so you have to do all the paperwork to get out of China. The second week, it's all the paperwork to get into the United States. That's why you're there for two weeks, because it's just a lot of bureaucracy. But the second week, we'd gone swimming every day and we'd been doing things with all the. His personality was starting to come out. And yeah, they taught us a phrase that. And they said, because you have a toddler, you must learn this phrase. And the phrase in English means, stop doing what you're doing. I mean, because in other words, you know, a little toddler is going to get rambunctious and you've got to tell them to stop doing what they're doing. So the phrase is. I'll tell you, the phrase in Mandarin is boyarts are young. So. Yeah, but apparently I was saying that way too much the whole time we were together one day. So. Boyats are young. Boyats are young. Stop doing what you're doing. Stop doing what you're doing. Well, one day, this is in the second week, he's. Shen is bouncing. He's jumping up and down on the bed. And I was. And I said, chen. Boyats are young. He jumps off the bed. Now here's this little three and a half year old Chinese boy starts strutting toward me with a swagger like this and just going, boyats are young. He was making fun of the old white man, mimicking what I was saying in his language. And I started laughing so hard. Yeah, this little kid had more game than I had. I mean, personality was coming out there. Just came out and just buried me personally. I mean, just kicked my emotional butt with Bo. Yeah, sorry. Young, you know, like, stop doing what you're doing. I know you. Yeah. I mean, it was just funny. I just died last year. That was an icebreaker. So that moment, you know, the moment with Shen for the first time, was that one of those other moments where that relationship was changing you. Like, you know, you had the pain when you were in the hospital room with one person showing up. Was this another monumental shift in your life? Yeah, and I've never really addressed it the way that just put on my heart, because what I felt in the hospital was my pain. What I felt in the hotel with him was his pain. Yeah, yeah. And I willingly, knowingly took on his pain to comfort him. I've done a whole lot of that in the past. What? That's what Parents do. Yeah. I'd never been a parent. That's. Yeah. Yeah. I've never been a parent. I'd never had to. And don't get me wrong again, when you love someone, they're in the hospital, you want to be there. But to take on his pain at three and a half and say, I've got to comfort him. Yeah. You know, and it's not helicopter parenting, by the way. It's coming alongside him with unconditional love. Yes. Yes. There's a difference in unconditional love coming alongside versus helicopter parenting and doing it for them. Yeah. No, no, no. There was no. So I had to come alongside him to know that he was loved. That. And that would have been difficult for him, you know. Well, there was no trust. Yeah. No. Well, exactly. But you. It seems to me that moment after the bath when you listened to your heart and the higher power, that there was trust built at that moment in that moment in time, there was trust built. Yeah. Yeah. It still had to be earned. More had to be earned. But that was the beginning of trust being earned. But. And you also had to have trust to listen to that voice. Yeah. I'd never been a parent. I had to trust what God was putting on my heart. Yeah. Yeah. We. That's. That's the most difficult thing about being a parent. You know, I think what helped me was I was willing to listen. I was broken in that moment in time with him. I knew I had no solution. So when I made that request, what do you want me to do? I just stopped. Yeah. You surrendered. Allowed. I surrendered and I allowed that to enter my heart. A lot of us, we just go. We just go. I gotta do. I gotta do this. I gotta. I gotta go. I gotta do this. We end. We do things instead of stopping for a moment and just feel or listen. What do I need right now? What do I need? That's what I'm doing right now. I, I. The. Before we, before we start recording, I shared with you that I lost my mother. I know. I'm so sorry. And the old version of me would drown myself in my work, but the question I'm asking and the mindset shift. The question I'm asking is, what do I need right now? And I know what I need right now is the time, the reset, the walks in nature. I needed this conversation with you. Things happen for a reason, right? 100. I told you that at the beginning, before we record it. Yeah, I know you did. Yep. There's so many other places we can go, Jack, but I I want to ask you this. What does success mean to you today? Well, yeah, today success is loving my son unconditionally and him knowing that I'm here to support him in anything that he does. Yeah. Just him realizing that I'm here to support him. Not me. Not me hovering. But he knows that I'm willing. He is my biggest success. Not what I've. Not the. The accomplishments, but then also have being in a community where people know that I love them and I feel that they love me. I mean, being in a community where I invest energy into other people and I tell the whole story in the book and I'll just do this very quickly that I talk about hitting rock bottom in the 90s when I almost died in that hospital for 15 days. But what happened when I moved here to Florida three years ago, I had an event, a heart event. But it was. And don't feel sorry for me, because I think it was. I think I was taking a supplement that I was taking too much of, and it affected my heart. But I had to have. I had to have an ablation. And so I'd only lived here four months, but I was surrounded by people in the hospital, people that I had gotten know in only four months. Because he poured into them. Yeah, because I had poured into them. I had volunteered to coach the ladies league team at the. At the community. I had connected with people in the community when I moved first moved here. And I was surrounded by people. And I tell that the happy ending. That there was a transformation in me because that's where the transformation has to happen. Doesn't happen with people around you. Within. Yeah. I hope people connect with that, Jack, because I know there's somebody hurting and. Right. And I believe when you pour into others, get involved 100%, it'll change your life. Yeah. If you need help yourself, pour into other people. Yes. The universe will. Will provide. Like, you know, I think I know the answer to this, but I'm going to ask it. Sure. What are you proudest of that isn't on your resume? My son. I knew that. Yeah. 100%. Yeah. And it's not climbing Kilimanjaro with my son. I mean, like, for example, this is not in the book, but a lot of people don't know. I'm thinking about writing another book and actually doing it with him. The idea that the next. A lot of people say, like, what were the lessons that he learned from being on Kilimanjaro and from being closer to you? The year after we climbed, he Was he was in karate and he was a brown belt. And he qualified for nationals in the 14, 13, age 13, then 13 AAU. So he goes to nationals and it's double elimination in kata. Informs and he loses in the first round, but it's double elimination. He goes to the end of a line of 15 kids. Yes. All 13 year olds, all qualified for nationals. And I'm going, this is going to be tough because he has to win 15 rounds to get back into contention for a medal. He wins 15 rounds and he gets a silver medal. And I'm telling you, that was Kilimanjaro. That was exactly the same. The resilience that he learned on Kilimanjaro was the resilience to take one competition at a time out of the 15. Because if you look at all 15, it's like us on that second. Overwhelming. Yeah, yeah. There's the. For those viewing, there's the picture of us at the summit behind me. Love it. You love it. Yeah. And. But he did that. And then the following year is even a better story. He's still a brown belt, and his best friend is a black belt and pretty good fighter. And asked Jen to do a team fight, it's called Team Kumite in Shotokan Karate. And said, let's fight together. Let's get Brian, their other buddy, and let's do a team kumite. Well, and Shen talks to me about it and I'm going, buddy, you realize you're only a brown belt. You're not as skilled as some of these other guys because this is a black belt competition. He goes, I know, dad, but I think I can do it. I'm going, all right. Well, they win the Illinois State high school, Illinois State 14 and under, AAU championship. They qualify for nationals. So now we go to the Fort Lauderdale Convention center, and my son's a brown belt. Lo and behold, I'll just do the quick they quick they get to the finals at nationals. Now, the three young men they're fighting are all on the US national team. Yeah. My son comes up to me that afternoon. They're going to fight at night under the lights. There'll be hundreds of people watching. And my son comes, Shen comes up to me and he says, dad, I just want to tell you something, so you're not surprised tonight, but I'm gonna start the fight. And I went, why? I said, buddy, you're a brown belt. Do you think that's the best way to start this fight? Because you know who you're fighting, right? He goes, yeah, I'm not afraid of them, dad. I'm not going to be bullied. And I will tell you, Brett, that night, and it wasn't that he won that they won. It was that the resilience that he showed in stepping into that arena. But my son starts to fight and I'm recording this with my phone and I'll never forget it because this is one of those moments. Shen legally knocked the kid down three times. Legally was up 4, 2 when he was tagged out. But at one moment, in one point when he's fighting, this is where the father's taking the video and goes, what have you done with my son? Yeah. Yeah. That was taking no prisoners. He was and he did. He set it up for them to win and they won the national championship. He stepped into the arena as a brown belt. I love it. And I think that. And it's not the winning, it's the resilience. Yeah. He learned from Kilimanjaro. The resilience allowed him to win. I think he taught you something in that moment too. Like, well, yeah, you can be strong at any moment in time. You don't have to be an adult. You can be a 14 year old child. Right. Young man. And well, you were strong as a child. Remember the eagle skull? Yeah. Don't tell me I can't do something. Yeah. Don't tell me can't. In fact, I say that to people now. Can't is not in our vocabulary. Right. Bingo. Yes. Jack, how do people find you in the book? I want to make sure our listeners. Well, they can go to my website, it's Jack Groppel.net and you can see all about the book there. If you want to connect with me personally, probably best on LinkedIn. That's where I'm the most active. I'm also on Instagram, Jack Groppel one on. On LinkedIn. It's just my name, Jack Grapple. Connect with me on and. But then on my website, Jack Groppel.net is where they can get connected to the book. Perfect. I hope everyone, I hope you, you do connect with Jack and say hi and let them know, please let them know if this episode connected with you, if made an impact and share it with somebody that needs to hear it. That's a. That's another way that you can pour into somebody, share this episode. That's a small way you can pour into someone today. Someone needs to hear it. I got one way I want to wrap up with you today, Jack Lightning Round questions. Okay. This will be fun. Okay, go. Yeah. Just small, short ones today. Yeah. What book changed your life? Oh, wow. Norman Vincent Peale's the Power of Positive Thinking is the one that probably changed my life way long ago. You know what's interesting? There was so many times during this conversation I was thinking about. About that book. Yeah. Nor that. That probably is the one book that just flipped the switch from Norman Vincent Peale, the Power of Positive Thinking. What the mind of man can conceive, the mind of man can achieve. Right. I think that. Yeah. What belief do you hold today that you didn't hold 20 years ago? I used to believe it's. If it's to be, it's up to me, but I'm al. But I believe now that God is in control. But it's up to me to do my part. Yes. Yeah. I've got to do my part. Yeah, you have to. What's one thing high achievers get wrong? It's all about achievement. I think it's all about love. It's not about achievement. It's about agape love. What mountain are you still climbing? Oh, it's funny. I think I'm still climbing the physical mountain because of my age and everything, because I play tennis every day. So the question. The most common question I receive from people is, how are your knees holding up? Because I, you know, I had them replaced. I had bilateral knee replacements in 2010. And everybody says, how are your knees holding up? I'm going, I don't have knees. They're not real. I said, everything else hurts, but nothing. They're fine. You know, that's probably what the mountain that I'm fighting, that everything else hurts, but not my knees. Your knees are fine. What does an adaptive mindset mean to you, Jack? Be willing to transform your life at any stage. You don't have to be stuck. You do not have to be stuck. My father said that so many times. He said, son, I am who I am. I wish I'd known then what I know now that you can transform. If it matters to you, you can transform at any stage in your life. And that's why I'm even at this stage in my life. I want to learn every day. I have a childlike curiosity to this day. And that's why, you know, one of the biggest things I learned that. That you shared and just wrapping up is, you know, the relationships matter. You know, they give meaning when you pour into other people. You show up and take one step at a time makes a difference. It's so true. And. And, you know, Your story to me, is a reminder that, you know, it's. Life isn't measured by trophies or titles or stages. You know, look at your relationship with your son, you know, strong. Yeah. It's all about the relationships. Yeah. Jack, I. What a pleasure to have you today. Thank you so much. My pleasure, too. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for tuning in to the the adaptive mindset. 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