Welcome to the Adaptive Mindset. I'm Brett Gallant, cybersecurity thought leader and founder of Adaptive Office Solutions. Here, we don't just talk tech, we unlock the strategies, stories, and mindset shifts you need to stay secure, lead boldly, and thrive in a digital world. Let's get started. Welcome back to the Adaptive Mindset. Today's guest is Eric Robinson, a recently retired FBI special agent who spent 24 years working across some of the most intense areas of federal law enforcement, including white collar crime, counterterrorism. I'm going to start again. Welcome back to the Adaptive Mindset. Today's guest is Eric Robinson, a recently retired FBI special agent who spent 24 years working across some of the most intense areas of federal law enforcement, including white collar crime, counterterrorism, crimes against children, gangs, drugs, public corruption, and national security. Eric also served as a SWAT operator for 15 years, along with being a firearms instructor and tactics instructor. He worked extensively in human intelligence, recruiting and developing informants, and was involved in cases that received the Attorney General's Award. But what makes Eric's story especially fascinating is what came before the FBI. Before entering federal law enforcement, Eric spent 12 years in Christian ministry, including pastoring a Baptist church in western New York. So today we're going to talk about the grittier side of FBI work, the human side of dealing with criminals and victims, what it takes to operate under pressure, and how faith, humor, and mindset helped Eric navigate some of the darkest parts of society without losing himself. Eric, welcome Thank you very much, Brett. I think I do podcasts like yours just so I can hear people say a lot of nice things about me to start off. I love it. As they say at my at my children's school, we're bucket fillers. So yeah, your bucket. Fantastic. Love it. So Eric. Your background is one of the most fascinating combinations I've seen. I mean, you spent 12 years in Christian ministry, then 24 years in FBI, working everything from SWAT to terrorism and informants from crimes against children and public corruption. So I don't—today I just don't want to talk about FBI stories, I want to understand how someone like yourself walks into that much darkness and pressure and still stay human. Does that seem like Oh, yes. I mean, that's a fair question, too. There's so much that I saw common even early on with the FBI from ministry that, number one, I felt like I was still doing God's work. So obviously in the church, but then working law enforcement, I could play a role to bring justice to people. And I think that's something that God desires. And then the people that I saw were in some ways the same. I could see a comparison that those in the church were people who came to me as a pastor and they were saying, Hey, I've done something bad. I've done something wrong. but they were ones who say, now I want to turn from that. Whereas the criminals were the ones that we had to make turn because they, they were just all in. And then part of that understanding, you know, we, we would talk about criminals and very few agents would, you know, call somebody a monster or, I mean, the, the worst that we'd usually say to, uh, dehumanize them is to say that's a bad guy. So, I was dealing with people, even with the criminals, I was dealing with people and, you know, you deal with the pedophiles, you deal with sex offenders and people on the outside would say that, I don't know how you can do that. I would just put a bullet in their head. And I think, yeah, but they're just people. And so I'm going to relate to them on that level. So it wasn't difficult to bring this into a realm where I'm just engaging with people who happen to be breaking the law and now we're going Um, it's such a big transition. I, I, I just, I really want to understand personally, just from a mindset besides that, like what, what particularly, and you answered it a little bit, but I want to go a little bit deeper. Baptist minister going from FBI, what particularly called you? Was it a leap of faith, I guess, in another way? A leap of faith leaving that, what was known to you, taking a scary leap into Yeah. Well, I mean, the initial answer is the FBI is super cool. So that's why I'm like, this sounds great. And you know, my wife is out of my league. You're not going to date the pretty girls unless, you know, you take a swing. So I thought, Oh, let me try this. But for, but the reason to move in the first place was, you know, I'd gone, I was preparing to be in ministry. I thought my whole life, like here I am in my late twenties, early thirties, I figured I could do this for 50 more years. Old people preach, but what I could not do and all other ministers seem to be capable of this was separating myself from the burdens that people had in my church. So when they came to me and said, Hey, you know, my son, I think has a drug problem or my wife is leaving me, I ended up carrying those too much. So because of that, I came to a place where I was developing stress-related headaches, and I had them every single day, without fail, for two years. And I just came to a place where, even though I was doing something well, I was doing it, the church was going great, I was doing it the way I thought it should be done, we were successful, my body said, Yeah, we can't do this anymore. And I can see that. I have a friend of mine that's in ministry, and he carries a lot. And no one really sees that, and I can't even appreciate it. But I've talked to him a few times, and there's dealing with what you just said, and being there at the final stages of life to all that. Those We, we had planted a church in Western New York and it was meant to be a church of outreach. So I'm like, Oh, we're going to have younger people. And we did. So I thought I'll be, I'll be doing all these weddings. No, I was doing funerals, you know, people are coming to me, you know, and they would say like, Hey, I don't really go to your church, but you seem nice. Can you do, you know, this funeral? And then, you know, one of the funerals was for a 16 year old girl who got pregnant. and miscarried. And so like, you know, here's an infant funeral, like, that sucked. And it was, that's part of So when I read your story, I, and about that transition, and life is about transitions, you just happened to make a career transition. Did your friends and people around you think it was pretty strange? Like, hey, what are you doing, man? You're leaving ministry to become, you know, FBI agent, Well, most people thought it was pretty interesting. And I felt like I was letting people down because we had started this church together with this core group and then people growing from there. And yet, Like that was one of the reasons why I stuck with it for so long, even though I was having pain every day. And it just really got to a place where I can't, I can't wake up again knowing I'm going to have a headache for most of the day. So people who knew and understood, okay, that's why you're leaving. They're good people. And so they were supportive in ministry. They Yeah, I think most people and people that knew you well understood completely. I was curious, like, what part of ministry actually prepared you, though, for law enforcement? There's the listening, I'm sure. Yep. And reading people. Yeah, and reading people is uh, empathy and curiosity. So I mean, it was the same type of thing, just apply differently. You know, I can use a hammer to punch in a nail or I can use a hammer to pry a board off. So it was that same tool. I'm just now using it to now question, listen, draw people out, show them I care. And you know, that's going to be for the victims. That's going to be for informants many times. And even with the criminals, if I'm showing them some type of kindness and humanity in a position where literally this is the worst day of their life, when FBI comes, tear open your door, guys are pointing guns at you. And I say, Hey, you're going to go to prison. It's the worst day of your life. And now I'm trying to help them through that of Um, just out of curiosity, just popped in my head after you said that, have So most of the people that we pull in, there's a long time of looking at them and getting to know what they're about. And then, you know, send him to jail, send him prison, go through trial. And there's not much we hear later, but I mean, I had an informant in Chicago who was a former crack addict who was trying to turn his life around and now wanted to give back. Uh, I remember we arrested a guy in Chicago on a mob case and we were arresting him for, um, possession with intent to distribute a large amount of cocaine. And the guy said, I gotta be honest with you. I wasn't selling it. I was using all of it. And you know, he showed like how he had no septum because he was just a massive cocaine user. And he said, you guys saved my life today. So there's, there's occasions like that. A lot of the times working with the teenage girls who were being pimped out, you know, they would yell and kick and spit at me and then later realize, okay, now that they're separated from that pimp, now they're starting to see, Yeah, you actually probably saved me. Thank you. Yeah. Didn't even realize it till later. Oh, it took a long time to get away from that mesmerizing intent that came from the pimp. You know, it took quite a Right on. I'm curious, like you made this huge transition and you're in the FBI. Was there ever a moment, especially in the early years that you said to yourself, this is not what Well, I mean, early on the biggest transition for me, I never shot a gun before, so I'm learning, but the biggest issue was trying to wrap my head around this a hundred year old storied agency, this institution, I spent 24 years there. I think I figured out maybe 75% of it. There's all these things that you go, I didn't know we did that or there we had those people. So much of it was learning the culture, the processes, you know, not just the judicial process, but also just how the FBI itself works. So there was a lot to bring in. Otherwise, so the day that I got accepted into the FBI, my headache stopped, which that, that was a sign to me like, okay, this is, this is the right decision. And it pretty quickly for me felt more comfortable. And the stresses, the, um, the kind of the falseness I felt like I had to have as a pastor to be perfect. I just had to be a good FBI agent. That's fine. I didn't have to be, the perfect man of God who didn't like to drink and didn't like smoking cigars, but I do, you You didn't have to keep that, that image that I think I imposed it more than they expected it, Oh, 100%. But isn't it interesting when you had that courage to that shift in mindset that, no, I have to take care of myself. And I look at that and I can relate to that in my own life because there was different times in my life where I finally learned to put my own oxygen mask on. I think for you, when you made that transition away from ministry to a new ministry, you Yeah, I didn't see it. Here I am. This is what I'm called to do. Okay, so I'm going to keep doing it. I'll gut it out. Hey, it's going well. Okay, why would I change? And then there's the fear. Like, well, this is what I thought I was going to be doing my whole life. Oh my gosh. What happens if I do something different and it's not what I'm supposed to. So yeah, there was, there was a lot of concern there. And then this is funny. I never considered this. And then just like the teen prostitutes I'm telling you about, once I got away from that, I realized, Oh, okay. Isn't it interesting, though, you know, you face your fear, that uncertainty. And I think a lot of our listeners and a lot of people can relate to this. Sometimes we don't go and embrace that new opportunity, that new challenge. And what would have happened in your life? I'm sure there still would have been great positive things, but if you had you not embraced fear and took that leap of faith, what I, well, I'll say this, I have many physical pains and you know how you get a pain and you just adapt, you know, like, I guess that's the way it is. So I don't know, maybe I, maybe I would just live with having headaches every day and go, well, my life is much lower quality, but to, to not exactly to your question, but related to it, you know, now I'm older. You know, I'm 25 years older than when I was trying to get in and had to leave. And I have since then seen how myself and humans are resilient. That even if I'm, even if the choice to leave ministry was wrong, that I shouldn't have done it, I would still find a new normal. I would recenter and my life would go on and it would be fine and it would be good. And so I, now having experience, now being a bit older and had mistakes and made wrong decisions and gone through traumas, and then my life readjusts, I see that that would have happened then, I expect Yeah, yeah. It's a really interesting times when you can reflect on that and just see it through a different lens. So Eric, I want to ask, ask you this. Um, what, what unique qualities does it actually take to be Well, the FBI hires very competent, intelligent people. Um, they're almost all are going to be self-motivated. I've got these four or five, six investigations and I need to be the one who's managing them, not having someone direct me. So those are almost, you know, that's baseline that people are going to have that. And then those, those are people who know how to collaborate. I have these cases. My colleague has these cases. I overhear her talking about something. And so I say, Hey, I got an informant who, you know, maybe can get in on your guy. What do you think about this? And so the collaboration, creativity, I think it takes a lot of tenacity. Um, I, my brother-in-law was a cop and policing can be great because you just do what you're told, go to this address, deal with this, and then you're done with it. It also sucks because you're thrown into a lot of bad situations. But in the FBI, you can have a case going on for months or years, and there has to be that tenacity to continue, um, have that interest and the, the goal of fulfilling to say, I'm going to find the truth. I'm going to get to a prosecution or, you know, cut bait on this Yeah. Yeah. It sounds like to me also, uh, courage and discipline, like the discipline, the a hundred percent discipline, like, uh, and how, like, how do you flex that? Like, like ever have times where just like, I'm tired. I give enough Yeah. All the time. And, and, and so it's much like, you know, if you watch football or basketball, no, no player goes a hundred percent every play. Cause you can't because then you're it's 15 plays in and you're now you're forced to go 75%. And so you go a hundred percent when you need to go a hundred percent. And then, all right, I'm going to kind of take this play off. Cause I know they're running a route that direction. I can. And so I would see that with new agents and I try to pass on, you know, my little wisdoms like, Hey, there are times where you're staying late, you're working weekends, you're given, you know, you're giving up your days off. I had done it for years. And then there's times to know I'm going home. It's five o'clock. I'm going home. I'm going to make sure I'm with my family because I'm going to invest in the family on those days. So that on this day, when I kind of have to be away, they see that I was there all the other times. So. Yeah, you got to know when to work 100% and when to I think a lot of people can relate to that. For me, right now, in this season of my life, especially the last two to three weeks, or actually a month or two, my mother's been quite ill in the hospital right now, currently. And up until about two weeks ago, I, you know, when you think of the, the, um, race car analogy, I was, instead of having foot down right on the gas all the way down, I took the foot off and I went cruising speed. Yeah. And. sometimes we lose sight of being present. And I love how you, you, you said, you know, you put that investment of being more present with your family. It's sometimes we lose sight of that. So what, what I, I, what I found the last two weeks, I decided, okay, Time to put the pedal down a little bit, but don't go to the floor. Yeah. Comfortable in between and be present and find that work-life balance, that mindset to be, yeah, two things can be true. I can be present for work. And I can be present for family, but that comfortable in between. And some days, some days like, and for out of necessity with FBI, you had to sacrifice sometimes. Like there's, there's, you know, the, we, I'm sure there were, like you said, weekends that you had to just go. Yeah. Yeah. So I, when I was in the Academy, one of my instructors said, Hey guys, you know, this job can kill families. I'm on my fifth marriage. And Other people's realities So I'm coming up on 33 years married. And part of that is congratulations. I plan to keep going though so it's you know it's fine it's like congratulating me. No i mean it's rare these days for people to keep a relationship Good. But part of that is like my kids when i wanted to make sure my kids knew dad's home like. I didn't, I didn't go golfing all weekend or just sit down in front of the TV. Uh, you know, I, I didn't go to the bar to unwind. I came home. And so if I had to be out on a Sunday until midnight, the kids had seen me before and they, they knew I didn't miss their programs. I didn't miss the important stuff. I took days off to go to special events. And now here's the one I can't miss. So. hopefully everybody The uncomfortable truth and reality, but when you were, I think I've heard it said by Jim Rohn, when you work, work, when you play, play. And when you were when you were home, you were home present. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I that's a takeaway, because I think, you know, there's so many people that forget that no matter where they're at, like there's that that those demands of what the ideal or what it means to be, you know, a business owner or what it means to be this. But Yeah. When I'll tell you it's a danger, especially in the FBI, too, because this is true for me. That's a real identity to say I'm an FBI agent. I have these powers. I have this authority. You know, it was something I held close. And so it's easy to say that's actually more important than anything else. You know, it's most important for me to always be there. Now, it's very important, but I'm going to put my family first and then Occasionally Yeah. Yeah, I Had that this weekend. I was Nominated for a I made a finalist for this great organization And I had my daughter's hockey tournament at the same time. Oh So I was present for my daughter's games was over for that event it was a great event and made it for the interviews, the supper and the after party, but I couldn't get in the morning. And you know, fortunately I made it that far, but I wasn't selected for the final cohort, but I have no regrets because I was present for that. And I was present for my daughter's tournament, seeing the moment where they won the three games and even being there when they lost. Yeah. You know, the, the loss in the semifinals, but it was no regrets, you know, so. Yeah. That's a good way to live. And that's like what you were, what you've, what you did with your life, you know, like, so like being a I can go back and look at, Hey, these are some amazing things I got to be at the FBI. I did these. That's great. No regrets there. Enjoyed it. And also here's all the Hey, um, just this, the question I want to make sure I ask, um, did you ever actually, what did, what did, what Yeah. So for me personally, well, you know, number one, growing up in a black and white, this is what God says, this is what's right and wrong. I've always been a person internally of one who judges and then struggled with, I don't want to be that way. So, you know, part of it is a sensitivity. And as I mentioned, the church that we built, I told that core group who came and said, hey, we're going to start a church. I said, look, no judgment here. If we're going to err, we're going to err on the side of grace. People come who have tattoos and, you know, piercings and gay couples and they smell like alcohol. Like we, we want them there. I don't want anything to show on people's face that says, you know, you're here, but you're not accepted. So it's always what I've wanted to promote. And you know, what's funny is you, you talk about judgment. I would go on search warrants in the most disgusting, like, Any agent, if you ever meet an FBI agent, say, hey, rattle off for me your top three worst search warrants, you know, stinkiest places you've been to. And so, you know, I go to those on those search warrants, I come home, hug the kids and say, hey, I'm sorry about being on you about your room, you're actually you're, you're okay. You know, because we'd have guys who were like, you know, wiping up dog crap with a pair of jeans and shoving it down an Yeah. Just tear, just, just how do you people live? So being in law enforcement and going into people's lives, looking through their phones, looking through their computers, coming unannounced, And having access to every corner of their world, like opens you up to, okay, there's a lot out here and I need to not be the person who knows right and Yeah. There's a saying I heard before you can't judge a book by its cover. Because your perception of somebody, you're judging sometimes, you're judging maybe by appearance or something, but they could be the biggest teddy I've got to tell you a quick story on that. I had a buddy who was working a child porn case. The IP address comes back to this house. He looks up the owner. It's like a 20, eight year old guy who on his driver's license, you can see horns that he's had implanted. His social media says he's a Satanist. And my buddy's like, I think we got our guy. We hit the house and he was actually renting it out along, you know, he lived there to like six other people. Um, this guy was super nice. He was the greatest Satanist I've ever met, you know, really Right. Right. And. And what's crazy is, you know, we line everybody up, there's like eight, nine people in the living room. And as we're going through, we're searching also getting ready to do interviews. And, you know, one at a time we're taking them out and there's like people, you know, trying to get some sleep because it's six in the morning. Other people's just, you know, sitting there chatting. And then there's one guy, you know, with his leg bouncing, looking around like this, like, OK, that's the guy. Yeah. We came back to return computers a couple of days later and they had framed our search warrants and put it up in the kitchen. Like these guys Wow. And and the the But you, you do the investigation and the truth Yeah. And that's part of like, I can go into any situation thinking I'm pretty sure I know what's what, but it needed to be, I'm pretty sure. So I still needed to have openness and I still needed to be curious. And I needed to, as I'm interrogating you, not be the one who's slamming tables telling you to shut up and listen to me. I want you to talk to me, and if you're going to tell me something contradictory, I want you to continue. I don't have to believe you, but I may now understand your mindset or even your legal Yeah, that's got to be pretty hard, though, too, from your side. It's it's fine. It was fine. You know, I playing bad cop was easy. You know, you could, it feels good to play bad cop, but when I come in and. You know, I've pointed a gun at you and I've given you orders and I've put handcuffs on you. I know who's in charge. I don't have to, I don't have to force myself to prove that I'm in charge so I can just rest in that. Let that sit. I don't have to. If you're gonna tell me lies, that's fine. I know I'm still in charge, How were you able to tell, though, when somebody was telling you the truth? I mean, the dead giveaway was that example, and the guy Yeah, so very little of it had to do with body language. Um, I can, I can think of, uh, I can think of one other case that body language came in and, and ultimately it still doesn't matter. It's just kind of a cue. Uh, I'd asked a guy, you know, I'd handed him a photo that we printed out and saw, you know, said, do you recognize this? And the guy was like hiding behind the photo while he answered me, which was showing to me that, yeah, he was guilty. But otherwise it's, it's all about the language. So I am listening to the words you say, and I'm not taking them kind of just on face value. So if I ask you, you know, where were you on Thursday? And you say, well, usually on Thursdays, I go to the laundromat. And then from there, so you said usually. but I'm asking what did you do? So there has to be that strong, strong language Yes, yes, yes. And I'm asking because people want to tell the truth. And so when they, and yet they don't want to show themselves guilty. And so they're going to try to find a way to kind of tell the truth or tell the truth in a way that they feel comfortable with. Um, without going full into the lie. Some people will just fully lie, but there has to be that thought process. One guy I was interviewing related to his involvement with an underage girl. I'm trying to use non-judgmental language. When were you first introduced to her? What else did you do in your relationship? Then he started describing things. And I'm going to allow him to minimize, because if he minimizes, that feels comfortable, but it also puts him in that place with that girl. So I'm going to let him tell me those things. And then I'm going to push back and try to draw out actually more truth, not just to accept what he says, but take that Sort of a little small door opening. The door's ajar. You get in Yeah, yeah, you give me this. I'll take it, but now I'm going to come back and I'm going to try to take more by refuting what you said. And then we've already established you were in the hotel with her now. You know, were you really just watching her kiss another girl? Nope, let's move forward to Yeah, yeah, just watching the language and more of the wiggle. Yeah. So like. You've seen the worst and the best of people. Crimes against children, when you built a church, come as you are, seen gangs, drugs, exploitation. you know, was there ever a category or case that hit you the hardest for emotionally? And like, what mindset did you use to overcome that? Like, how do you, like in those hard moments, what have you done to get yourself back centered and build that mindset to come back? Because there's moments that, like you're a human being. Yeah. Like, So whenever FBI agents have downtime, they tell stories and I'm pretty sure it's the same with cops too. And you're, you're counting these and these engagements that you've had. And like, if I brought you in just to observe and, or like brought in a psychologist, I think that they would say, oh, those are survivor stories. So, you know, sometimes I'm just telling crazy stories, but like someone from the outside doesn't hear it as a crazy story. I saw, I saw one meme, which I think is hilarious where. You know, a guy from the military is telling about this crazy adventure. They go, they were on and the person replies with, well, I'm sorry that happened to you. Like, you know, we think of it as a wild adventure, whereas someone from the outside would say. Oh my gosh, that must've been traumatic. And so I think they are traumas and we engage with them by speaking them out loud. So they're not just held within, they're made real again, as we say them out loud. And also I think they are survivor stories. They're statements of, you remember that time Phil went up in the attic And he ended up being there in that room by himself for a moment. And he ended up stepping on the subject, trying to hide under the clothes. And the guy had a loaded shotgun and, and And we share that because he could have been killed. Yeah. Yeah. But now we're, we're, we're just, we're But actually he survived and you're hearing at that time while sharing that story, you know, I think processing it, processing it, processing it, Yeah. And, and, and in saying like, remember that happened, that was in 2017. Here we are in 2026 still alive. Yeah. Yeah. Look how far we've come together. Yeah. And part of that too is now, as I talk about that, or someone else talks about, now we're bonding. Like, hey, you Shared experience. Yeah. We were in the trenches together. And now we're closer. So it's not just, it is working through the trauma. It is saying we're survivors, but it's also saying you and me, man. You and me did that and we are here. I supported you. You supported me. And so then it becomes even a positive for us that I was there for your benefit. You saved my life. I It's interesting. I'm thinking about this, how you said it and tying it into, uh, I helped, uh, help plan and execute a mayor's forum in Nunavut, this is northern Canada, first time in 14 years. And the slogan we had for the event was together we're stronger. Yeah. Together You and your colleagues are stronger because you're there for each other. So like, and you could see that and recognize it and you know, Hey, we've lived through this together, but when we're together and we got And that's why I felt the greatest bond to my fellow SWAT operators, because we'd been through that because every time we were out, you know, it didn't feel like it, but it was a life and death situation. Someone could oppose us with violence. You know, a lot of times they came out with their hands up and that was good, but then we're entering into situations where we don't know who's around that corner or what they might do. And we did it successfully. So we made it through and also we did it very well. And here we are. I'm up at one in the morning serving next to these guys. So even in during that, you know, just made us And all of this could make a person hard. And, uh, I, is this the one way that you kept like that togetherness of keeping it from you becoming harder? Cause you're in that world. Like, like, well, there's a balance. So. I can't cry every time I go out and see something bad. And I also can't say that doesn't touch me because then I go home and I'm useless to my family because nothing gets in. So I believe there has to be a self-awareness or reflection of what is going on with me. How did that affect me? Of at least thinking of it. And sometimes processing it in discussion of like, man, that was tough. You know, that was a hard one. Or, you know, I'm finding a like-minded colleague who has that experience that we don't, we don't, we don't have to be crying. You know, we don't have to call this a therapy session, but I'm just saying, I'm talking about maybe some of the difficulties I'm having because, you know, this has been going on lately and that's tough. And so. The See, I think though a lot of times, I've talked to a lot of entrepreneurs, business owners, and now I'm talking with you. Business owners, sometimes it's unavoidable. You carry some of the work home. Yeah. And so you get some of it out. You got some of it out by talking with your colleagues. but it's unavoidable. How, how, like, and I, I, maybe there's a lesson here for, for anyone listening that you can't do it alone. You know, I mean, there's entrepreneurs that are doing the grind working 15, 16 hours a day and run on empty, but you have to, or if something's going terrible in the company, who do you talk to? Well, or have the courage to talk to someone. Some people Yeah, so I think you're talking about people like You weren't on an island just as you didn't have anybody around I really didn't. I mean, even though I had close people and men that I respected and trusted, maybe I was wrong. But, you know, I can't, I didn't feel like I can tell him like, Hey, this is where it's hard for me. You know, you know, Julie, who called yesterday, actually, I hate her. I wish she wouldn't have called. You know, I didn't have that in the FBI. I had all these people had gone through the same thing as me. Whereas as a pastor, just me up here separated and I'd have to bring somebody else up to my level. And I didn't feel as safe. The FBI, I can turn to this guy, that guy, that guy, that guy, and they all can identify because they were there too. You know, I want to take this for something I want, like here's the Eric today. Okay. But Eric knows today and think about Eric, the minister. and knowing what you know now, was there a pathway that Eric could get help and talk to somebody? What would you say to him? And I want you to share that because somebody right now could hear this and maybe they can find a path, you know, to... So I needed to have other ministers who The senior pastor of the church that I came from was a great and godly man. but not the kind that I could share with. Like, I don't want to say he was unsafe, but for this, he was not the right man for me to come back to. But there's thousands of other ministers, isn't there? I needed, I needed a group of three to four, cause I don't, I don't do well with a big one. So two, three, four other men who I can, I can sit around and talk shit. about my people in the congregation about, like, I can say, Hey man, I'm going to be honest with you. This gets me angry. And they go, yeah, me too. I get Yeah. I'm trying if they like your, your mastermind, Yeah. And I, I, I being a bit, um, isolated and that's my personality. I didn't seek it out. I was, fairly young, so I didn't know enough, but exactly as you're saying, I had that in the FBI. These guys were at hand and I could just grab But you didn't know as a minister that you could seek that out. You didn't think of that possibility, that possibility, the paradigm. There's another city that I could talk to, you know, or, or, or the other side Well, and part of it too is the internet wasn't A hundred percent, but, but we still drive in cars, but now I meet with my, uh, a peer group, uh, every week, but, but there's so many people listening right now, they're carrying something and maybe they haven't considered to build a network. And, and now with the internet, with social media, I mean, I think it would take, it would take a short period of time to at least find something to begin with where you can say, you know, again, for me, you know, I have that fear. I don't like interacting. I don't like, I don't like being vulnerable. You know, most people don't. I really didn't. I was a young guy trying to prove myself that I can build a church. So God forbid, I say, I But there's strength in recognizing Old Eric knows that. 30-year-old Eric. But the wisdom to see that now. Yeah. like it or not, sometimes we're not open enough to accept that and to seek out mentors. So yeah, like, build our network. That's what I needed. Yeah. So I want to get to the important question here. As we wrap up, we could have went on for hours, Eric. You're, You're preparing to release your first book, I I am. Uh, it was an exciting one to write and I liken it to what would happen if there was like a social scientist out there who said, I want to try something crazy. I'm going to take this Baptist pastor who's never handled a gun. I'm going to stick them in the FBI and we're going to study him for, you know, a couple dozen And, and, and then, you know, these are all the notes because it actually was much more me. That's, I felt better being an FBI agent. I felt natural. And this guy who's, you know, never handled a gun, never hunted, didn't know law enforcement outside of cop shows. Um, I got to work some remarkable cases. I got to be the guy. breaking down doors for the SWAT team. I'm instructing on firearms. And so I'm getting to, to live out that life that to me, I just thought was remarkable. Like when I got accepted in the FBI, I thought what's And, and I, even though I fit in well and I thrived, I always had a fascination of, Oh my gosh, I get to be in this room, this amazing organization and the greatest law enforcement agency in the world that I get to be a part of that. That's great. And yeah, but that guy got to do these things and play a role in them. And, and I, I tell the story from the eye of, of someone who was a Baptist pastor along the way of, you know, this is what I did in ministry. Now I got to play it out here, catching some terrorists Interesting lens, isn't it? So when are The book will be out in early October. My wife's company has began publishing books, Weaving Influence Press. And unfortunately, paying customers got in line ahead of me, so we have to let them go first. But it's actually in the hands of the FBI right now, so they can review it Yes, yes. That's a wise call. Well, they make you do it. But I also know that there's nothing in there that's... No, but it's just it's good protocol. Yeah. how I think they'll identify that this, I mean, I, I tell stories of like crazy things, remarkable things, heroic things, but it's a story of a guy who goes, can you believe I'm getting to do this? And I think people will read and go, Oh, that could have been me. Like, this is just a guy who's, you know, in investigating a, Financial criminal who's telling everybody in the neighborhood that he's banging his wife and then they get divorced and then he tells everybody i'm with his second wife and then they get divorced and now of course i'm with his girlfriend like it's just it's just silly things like that that actually went Yeah i know and it's. you've seen quite a bit and remarkable transition to be from that, from where you were to building a network of being in the FBI and realizing you can be together, solidarity and seek help and be transparent and open enough that remember that time. So you built that. And now you've created a book so you can impact more people. Because not only have you impacted people through all areas of your life, because you've impacted planting the church, being a minister, and then being an FBI, impacting thousands of people. And this conversation today, we're impacting people again. Isn't that great? So I hope we are, we are. And then the book, the book. Yeah. Yeah. People can find me on Instagram at underscore Eric underscore Robinson. And I'm amazed that was still available January this year on LinkedIn, put in my name, put an FBI, you'll see this face where you can go to my website to follow along for how the book is progressing. And that website is preacher2breacher.com. Love And everyone, please reach out. Connect with Eric. Start a conversation. Follow him. Look for the book. share, comment, and let Eric and myself know if this has impacted you. Share this episode. Let's help out Eric and help, most importantly, help someone you know that can be impacted with some of the wisdom that Eric has shared with us today. Eric, it was a pleasure to have you today. Yeah, thanks so much, Brett. Thank you. Thanks for tuning in to the Adaptive Mindset. 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