Welcome to the Adaptive Mindset. I'm Brett Gallant, cybersecurity thought leader and founder of Adaptive Office Solutions. Here, we don't just talk tech, we unlock the strategies, stories, and mindset shifts you need to stay secure, lead boldly, and thrive in a digital world. Let's get started. Welcome back to the Adaptive Mindset. I'm really pleased to have with me today, Dean Curtis. He's been on the front lines of three massive technology adoption waves. Palm in the early days of mobile, Apple during the iPhone's rise to dominance in the enterprise, and now as CEO of Engage, where he's helping sales teams bring interactive, measurable content to a distracted world. Dean Curtis has helped senior leadership roles at Apple, Palm, and Intellisync. And since 2019, he's been leading Engage as CEO after serving as CRO and COO. So in this conversation, we'll talk about what Dean has learned about driving adoption, how to balance AI and authenticity in sales, and what it really takes to scale both revenue and culture at the same time. Dean, welcome to the show. Brett, thanks so much for having me on. I appreciate that. Awesome. Welcome. Yeah, it's coming to your inbox. I promise you. There you go. It's such a pleasure. I feel like I'm talking to an OG of technology, Palm. We were just talking Green Room in the beginning. You mentioned You know, it's funny, when I first got my first Palm, I learned how to use it by entering in all of my contacts to learn, because you had to know like a little, an alphabet in order to enter data in. There was no thumb keyboard, there was no voice, you know, there's nothing. You had to learn, literally had to learn new language. So we've come a long way, baby. There's a lot more to I've been through those waves, the Palm, the BlackBerry, and the iPhone. I want you to take us back. What was it like being part of Apple during Yeah. If you think back, so it was 2008. At the time, BlackBerry, as you mentioned, was dominant. There was Palm, there was BlackBerry. Palm had very small market share. They were trying to unseat BlackBerry or at least compete with BlackBerry. But BlackBerry owned business. The iPhone comes out the year prior and everybody wants to use it in business, but it doesn't have the right feature set to be secure, to be manageable. Like it's all these technical things that actually prevent it from being adopted in business. So I was brought over from Palm. Our whole team basically left Palm and came over to Apple to lead the charge in business. And our remit was very simple. figure out what the needs are of the enterprise, bring those requirements back and see how many Fortune 500 companies we could get to adopt as a corporate standard, the iPhone. Yes, that's incredible. And that just shows you the power of mindset when you make a decision and you had strong leadership and then a great team. mindset to figure it out, Well, I'll tell you, the mindset that had to shift was the mindset of the IT people at these big companies, because they were in love with all of the things that BlackBerry had, because it was very robust. the encryption, the management, the lockdown, the setup, the deployment, all of those things matter. If you think about deploying thousands and thousands of devices to teams, the mindset of the IT was, I have job security because I'm using BlackBerry. There's an old saying that said, I never got fired for buying IBM. Well, BlackBerry was very, very similar in the tech world. We had to come up with ways in order to make those IT teams very comfortable with the security, the deployment, and the management of all of those devices on their network. Because if you think about it, you're deploying deploying devices at a bank, you have to be very careful of all the different things that are important from a security perspective. So the mindset shift was with IT. The owners, the managers, they all wanted the devices because they were the shiny toy, but the mindset shift in IT was a massive mindset Oh, and I was one of them. Back then, I remember working in a construction fabrication company, and we were in love with the Palm, and then we fell in love with the Blackberry, and then it took a while for me to let it Yeah. I remember my first interview at Apple. I asked the, so I interviewed with the VP of iPhone and I said, is it, do you really think you're going to be successful without a keyboard? Cause back then that was the big debate. Can people type on glass? Now no one thinks about typing on glass. And he's, he looks me dead in the face. He says, I think we're going to be okay. I Isn't that interesting? And how often do we really need to look at ourselves and really question I mean, everyone believed that the iPhone, I mean, you could go and do the research, but there are multiple CEOs of competitive companies. Apple's not just gonna walk in and build a phone. This is what Ed Colligan from Palm said. Michael Dell was very anti the iPhone. Like, they're not gonna be able to do this. No one's gonna type on a screen. Someone from Blackberry probably said that. And it's like, yeah. You have to change your mindset. And I think that's what made someone like Steve Jobs so ahead of his contemporaries was he could see around corners like no one. And that's part of it being I mean, I love the title of your podcast being adaptive mindset. being able to see around corners, being able to see the next trend, and it's not even predicting it. It's not like you're Nostradamus. It's really understanding human nature, how people interact with things, user design, user experience. All those things allowed him to see around the corner and say, no, it'll be fine. It'll It's funny you say that, because you're making me think of a presentation I seen about three years ago in Nunavut. And it's very much on my mind right now, because I'm about to go in November to present. There was this beautiful woman who got up and she talked about the story of the Innu people. And she told the story about how in their culture, The elders would go up on a mountain and look from high to see another perspective, to see what was coming. And she related to that back in their lives. Sometimes you have to go up high and look and see beyond what is now and see what's coming at you. So I always think of that moment and just what you said right now made me think of that. Sometimes we have to have that mindset to go up on that peak and look beyond what's coming or Yeah, it's also, I think another good way to think about that is disconnection. So we're so attached to these devices in our life. And one of my things that I do to clear my head when I have big decisions to make is I have this, I live in Northeast of the United States and I live North of the city of Philadelphia. I'm in this great path along the Delaware River, it's a canal path. So the old trade routes along the Delaware, And I can walk for miles, for miles and miles. So there's a town that's about seven miles from my town. And whenever I have a big decision, I put my phone away, I grab a notebook, I put my sneakers on and I walk. And I leave in the morning and I walk up, I look at my notebook, I get back and I'm like, what am I going to do about this decision? It's a total mindset shift of being away from devices, of being out in nature, of like you said, changing your perspective. It could be from a high hill, it could be from a riverbank, but Yeah, I like to think of it as resets. You go for a long walk and you're alone with your thoughts and everything percolates and you just have that quiet time and let your mind process. I did that last year. I actually literally did climb a mountain. I snowshoed up. And there was no way I was going to have cell reception because there was none. I had three crazy, great ideas and solved one issue that was very much in my mind in that four and a half hours up that mountain. It was incredible. That's really important that we do disconnect and have that quiet time. That's so awesome. you were part of that journey and now we're here on the other side. Now, you've gone from technical leadership into revenue and then CEO roles. What mindset shifts did you have to have along the way, Dean, like The first thing is I had to have the mindset that I didn't know what I was doing. Accepting the fact that as much as I have experience and it can apply to the new thing that I'm doing, reality was, there's a lot that I didn't know. So the first is just accepting that, okay, I might need help. And I was never really good at asking for help. I've always been a muscle through it kind of guy. And I talked to a lot of friends and they're like, I think that's They could just because you're a guy like that's just what we do naturally is to try and solve problems ourself. And I think the biggest the biggest shift for me was accepting that I didn't know all the answers and having to go out and build a network of people who do know the answers and our coaching program like a. there's a common practice of trying to be in the room where you with people who have done the thing you want to do, so that you can get around them, right. So going and finding mentors who have done the thing was the biggest change for me. And then not only being there, but listening and actually doing the things that they recommended. That That's the thing. So many people get comfortable when they go to the event or be around the people, but you don't have the discipline or the execution to actually do the follow through or make the Yeah, a common phrase that I use with people in my life is lessons will be repeated until they are learned. So you may have to, because a lot of times we don't learn new things. We just have to be reminded of the things that we've learned in the past that we've never implemented or executed against. So it's the execution part that really matters. You can learn all you want, you can read all the books, you can listen to all the podcasts, you can watch all the YouTube videos, Yeah, you've invested that time, but it's sort of like the same analogy as what I used to really live this example. I had a treadmill down in my basement, and what it became was a glorified towel rack. But I had it, I had the promise I was gonna get out and work out, but I just put the towel there with a promise. Yeah, I invested in the treadmill. I didn't execute it. It's like people who invest in a great coaching program, they don't, sometimes they get comfortable, they don't execute and show up and execute on, on I mean, there's, there's coaching calls that I'm on with hundreds of people. And I often wonder how many people are taking notes and how many people are actually good then. So let's say all, all the people took notes. Well, how many people read them ever again? How many people then take action on those and how many people then take action on the action to keep consistent after it? It's just, being in the room is not enough. It's great that you did that. It's great that you got off your butt and actually went into the room, but if you're not going to take action to implement So we're both in Dan Martell's coaching program and he says something quite beautiful that I'll be honest, I don't always live up to it, but I darn well 95% of the time do it. It's what's caught, not taught. And my notes sometimes don't even reflect what was being said, but it triggered an idea, so I write it down. Then I go back and review it. And I go back to my notebook from six months ago and re-read it. I'm like, why did I write that down? But then, oh yeah, that's why. Yeah, no, totally. Trigger that, trigger it, you know? Yes. So you've had these mindset shifts and what do you think, what's been the most challenging though from doing There's a couple of big challenges. Going from a huge company with prestigious name to a small company that no one knows, there's a bit of a hit in terms of reality. So when we were at Apple trying to go into the Fortune 500, it didn't matter who we called. Everybody wanted to talk to us. It wasn't a matter of if, it was a matter of when we were gonna get the meeting. Going to a small company that no one knows about where you're trying to build a business from scratch, you have to take a thousand reps to try and get the one call. And I think that was one of the hardest things is to not get discouraged in those failures, because it was a lot of failures. We were trying to find product market fit for a new product. We would go and we would try to small business expo thinking, oh, it's going to be great because here's the reasons why, didn't work. We went and met with a whole bunch of other companies, multiple verticals, didn't work. Invested some resources because we had a really cool idea with this optometrist shop that we thought would be a really interesting, didn't work. It's dealing with failure in that massive overtime, every time. Just to say, nope, nope, nope, and have that door shut. It's being able to be resilient and that to say, okay, it wasn't a loss, it was a learning, totally fine. To come back the next day and say, all right, who are we going to try next? When you go from a big company where things are pretty much preset where everyone wants to talk to you to that world, that was a big adjustment. There were some pretty dark days of feeling pretty terrible about yourself and about what you're doing. But then there's sparks. Someone really shows interest in what you're doing. In our case, we found Product Market Fit through an inbound request on our website. This is the whole reason we are in the business and selling to the people we are today, because they opened our Oh, that's so awesome that you were receptive to that idea. And it came probably at the right time, because sometimes you get knocked down and you get back up. But like, after a while, it's like, what am I doing? Yeah, totally. So you totally had that mindset, that determination that you were going all in and just kept plugging in. Most times people quit. Yeah. And they're one. one relationship or one call away from making it happen. You had that inbound that you didn't even That's right. It was our sale. I always give Charlie, our sales rep credit. He said, he's like, Hey, we have a real opportunity here. The company's new pro out of Boston. I always give them credit because it's without them. I don't think we'd even be in business today because they really helped us get clarity on where we were going. And that clarity plus belief, and then we were 100% committed. 100% of the time. 100% of the time, we were consistently going. We were like, all right, we're going to try this. Matter of fact, I sold off a semi-profitable part of the business so we could focus on our new business. I essentially said, if this is our path forward with the new product, which is why I came to the company, I said, we have to shed the old and we're gonna move forward with the new. So we sold the old product and old customers off to a partner. And we said, we're all in on this new market. And that was a huge mind shift too of like, all right, the past is behind us. This is our future. Win or lose, this Very difficult. I'm capturing something right now with what you just said. One of the commitments I made to somebody in the gym last week, I actually gave him a copy of Buy Back Your Time. And he was saying, we were talking about books that have inspired us. And we talked about thinking, grow rich. And I told him I was making a promise to go through that book again. I'm listening to it right now in Audible. You made me just think, I don't know if you ever read the book, but there is a part in the book called Burn the Ships. You burn the ships. The boats were gone, you went all in. That takes courage and a mindset discipline to say, hey, I'm Wow. Well, I mean, if you think about it, if you have 10 priorities, you have none. It's actually the opposite of definition of priority if you say you have 10. You have to focus. I'm reading a really good book right Just talked about that with my partner, my accountability partner. It's really, really good because it's the idea that your mind, your mindset going into something, when you say you're in a 10x something, is you have to think of totally different pathways to solve the problem than if you're only going to go to 2x. It's very similar to that same moment of saying, you know what, we're not doing this anymore. We're going in this direction. If you're with me, let's go. We did massive change. dozens of people in a company, we took it down to 17 in order to be capitally efficient to move and grow. But it was because Charlie said, I really think there's something here. We dug in, we looked and we said, this is where it's gonna be. Now, from one customer to hundreds to serving 10,000, tens of thousands of presentations every single week because of that decision to Yeah, there's a big takeaway for everybody listening right now. There's somewhere that all of us can relate to that and say, what do I need to revisit? What's true right now? Maybe there's no need for a change, but maybe you need to dig deep and look in places like Dean did, and I'll tie it back to what I said earlier about the constant failure. I was no longer afraid to fail because I had failed so many times trying to find product market fit in all these different places. If it didn't work, I knew it was going to be okay because I knew there was going to be another thing that might come up. And if it didn't, I was also okay with that to say, look at what we did. Look at what we tried. There was going to be something else down the road. There's always something else down the road. This is just, the failure is okay, right? Dan also says, you know, winners lose Yeah. Yeah. You just keep going. You have to have that belief in that mindset that it's going to happen. But so oftentimes we, unfortunately, sometimes we quit when we're just that, like I said, a That's right. We on our on our SDR team, we asked them to make one more call at the end of the day when they think they're done. Now, it doesn't really, does it make a material difference? Maybe not, but it's that mentality of, I made my hundred or whatever the number is for the day, I'm gonna make the next one more to get one, because they think the power of one more, I got one more rep in. I might've been the one that made- I've read that book too. And my let's book, the power of one more, right? That idea of just one, I'm gonna give it one more shot is, It's so powerful. And it's a mindset thing. It's not a tactical, physical thing. It's a mindset thing that one more is actually something And you're the person that keeps promises to yourself. So you say, hey, I still have gas in the tank. What's one more call? What's one more knock on the door? That's right. We all have it in us. It's just, are we going to be committed to do it? Totally. Like I did. one extra rep on one part of my routine this morning that I hate. I did it. Like I did it. I don't like I did one more. You know. You can't skip leg day. No skipping leg day. I know, but you sometimes you want to. What a total mentality, but that is, we're talking about mindset. People who love going to the gym, but some people hate going to the gym no matter what, but they still do it. And then it's that one day, some people don't like whatever, right? Whatever it is, legs is typically the one that no one likes. Everybody likes to skip leg day. You feel like marshmallows by the time you're done if you, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but it's totally a mindset. It's not, if you go into the gym only when Yeah, yeah, yeah. And if you go into the gym like I do, I've been doing a pretty consistent routine. My alarm clock goes off at 4.45, I'm out the door by 5. Love it. Yeah, just getting it done. got the podcast in or the audible. Sometimes I watch something foolish and laugh mindlessly at five in the morning. My wife's co-worker said, what is your If you relied on how you felt at 445, how Oh, there wouldn't be, Not many. And that's why there's a shirt I wear, Dean, it says discipline is a decision. It's a decision to get up and go, even when you don't feel like it. Decision to make that extra call, even though you're I think a lot of people have the perspective that discipline is a negative thing, right? Because you discipline your dog or you discipline your children. Discipline is actually Latin for the same root of disciple. It's being committed to. It's a very different mindset around discipline than punishment, because a lot of people equate discipline to punishment, but it's the same. It's really about having a level of commitment to a standard. And I Sometimes four, because I get up early and I just say, yeah, let's go, you know? Yeah. I love what you just said. That was really powerful, what you just related to the discipline. So many people do look at it as a negative, but it's not. Yeah. It gets you where you want to go. Yeah. Yeah. When you put the reps in, you can go anywhere and just have to have that belief. So Pivot here for a moment. You've been at the center of three major adoption stories, Palm, which was incredible at the time, Apple, and now Engage. What You said it a little bit earlier, but- It's probably no different than anyone else, right? Change is hard. Yeah. Think about your own life, any kind of change. You're gonna move, you're gonna go to a different city, you're gonna start at a different gym, you're gonna start a new fitness program, you're gonna, heck, you're gonna start reading a new book. There's momentum that has to be gained in order to get into that. It could be something as simple as reading a book. Technology changes, I've seen from big companies to small companies, most people don't really know how to deploy technology. It is massively disruptive and where we play, our whole product is integrating into a sales process. Well, if all of a sudden I mess with your sales process and you don't sell, That's not good. There's high stakes. A lot of times when you do any technology deployment, there's high stakes. There's all of a sudden, if I'm going to swap out all the laptops from PCs to Macs, well, that could be a huge productivity hit. We could lose two weeks of work because of some system that we didn't plan for. I think as you look across technology adoption, there's great research done on the technology adoption curve where you have the early adopters, then you have the fat middle of everyone getting it, and then you have laggards that are adopting technology. I think most people, you look at it, they're just afraid of it. Because they're afraid of what they don't understand. And, you know, I remember teaching, teaching someone how to use a spreadsheet, and they would always say, I don't want to break it. Like, you're not going to break anything, there's an undo, whatever you do, you can undo, right? So like, there's this, there's this fragility, you know, you have to have almost the anti fragile model of saying, I know that this technology is going to be really good for me. And we bought it because it provides these things of value. I mean, don't buy technology if you don't know what the value drivers are, which say that I should hire. I always think about the hiring. What are you hiring the technology to do, right? If you go back to your reference earlier, buy back your time. You hire technology to do a job that makes your life easier, typically. Why would you buy a CRM? Well, you buy a CRM so you can track your contacts and your contracts and your deals and your leads, and you have a process for doing that. Well, if it doesn't deliver that value, you shouldn't buy it. Yeah. And I think when people are, if you look at the adoption of technology, like you go back to our work at Apple, we, it wasn't really going to be possible for an enterprise until they could deploy it, secure it, deploy it and manage it. Like that was the story. That's what we had to make sure was true. And when we were able to provide that value, it provided the value to the person deploying the Yeah, there's a big takeaway there. You have to adapt to what the needs are for the customer and I think everybody listening has something in their house that they bought that they look at today and they're like, why did I ever think that that So I have one. My wife wouldn't agree with me, but I'm going to go somewhere just right off the ledge here. And I might regret saying this. Of course, she doesn't listen. The ice machine. I regret it. I hear that thing going off all the time, but she loves it and the children love it. There you go. Why did we buy that thing? but there's countless real life examples though. So if you were advising leaders listening right now on The first step is to involve them in the process of deciding that the tool is something you should buy, right? This happens all the time. We're at a conference, the leader's there, they see our software. They're like, this is gonna be game-changing for our people. I said, okay, well, do you have any of those people here? Because I want them to be as excited as you are about it. Or they build this sales process and then they've never involved the sales team in the process of building the process or at least getting check-ins. It's the number one thing. I'll tell you a funny story back at Palm. We built a prototype for the California Highway Patrol to do vehicle license lookups on a Palm. This is years ago. I had this modem on it, but I could scan someone's driver's license and I could do a quick check to see if there was any, now these systems are, of course, everywhere, but back in the day, this is like revolutionary. None of this stuff existed. All the devices came back broken. And we're like, this shouldn't happen. Like if you're using them, the people in the pilot were putting them under their tire, rolling over them, bringing them back, crack the broken. because they weren't involved at all in the development of the software and the user interface to make sure it was something that was actually gonna solve a problem for them in the field. It was people in an office that never went into the field designing software for people that need to use it in the face of real conditions. So we were like, what's wrong with the hardware? It wasn't a hardware problem at all. It was a user experience problem because the people who were going to be the end user were never involved in that process. And that's the obvious first step, but a lot of times we forget about that, which we shouldn't be. Yeah, Involve the people that are gonna be impacted by the change in the process of the change. It doesn't matter what you're doing. So the technology, goals rolling out to your company, process changes, rule change. I know a lot of companies have gone from unlimited or from PTO to unlimited vacation. but never include the people who are impacted by that in the decision. So it's not just technology, it's anything. Major decisions where you have change impacting someone, involve them in the decision process. You can't give them, you know, approval, but at least have a say or have a Have influence, they're involved. So, and I believe everyone has a valuable perspective. So if you bring it, you're only, bringing the best out that will give you a better adoption and overall experience for everyone. When you said that, it just made me think of something that we had rolled out back in the similar time that Palm was working for a construction fabrication company, and we rolled out bioscanners for a construction site. It didn't go well. Part of the issue was we didn't involve the end users. We didn't have them part of the why. So let's talk about AI for a moment. Everyone's talking about AI and sales, but what's hype and what's real I think, well, there's a lot of technology that will allow you to replace humans in the sales process with AI process. So we're actually looking at some of those things, call center software, phone answering, appointment setting, those types of things. I think what AI can do is they can make your good sellers great and your great sellers even better. The key though, understanding the appropriate time when it's going to be brought in. I'll give you an example. Someone sent me an email the other day, internally at our company, and I asked them some questions on it afterwards. had no idea because they really didn't write the email. They used AI to write the email. I think That's one of the dangers of it is it can do so much that you forget to be the critical thinker in that process, right? I think the phrase that I use is tool plus human is greater than human, but you still need the human, right? Tools are not greater than humans. You need tools plus humans to be better than just a human by themselves, but it's like anything. It's like any piece of software, any piece of hardware that you're using for your business, for your personal life, if you're not in the middle of it and you're not helping it to enhance, not replace, I think that's the big mistake. And I think a lot of people in sales are doing that. I mean, I get cold emails all the time. Like this was totally AI written, generated, and it's lazy. To me, it's lazy. Use it to be amazing rather than great. And then I think Yeah, that's so true. A lot of times when I'm talking about AI, I try to explain to people the way I use it. I use it as an extension of my brain, a thought partner. I converse with it. In fact, this morning when I went for a hike, I was, I had my Bluetooth headphones on and I was talking to it about strategy, Spartan partner, like just came up with so many, many great thoughts and ideas, but it was, I was in control. And I think that's the big lesson that people But you have to be in control. That's right. I think the other thing that it does for me, my own personal value of AI, is that it solves the blank page problem for me. I am really not good at the blank canvas. My strength is taking something that exists and looking at it, evaluating it, and making it better. That's perfect for AI, because I can talk to, like you just said, I can talk to AI with my stream of conscious thoughts. It can get me started, and then I can take that and mold it into what I think is the right response, the right project, the right goals, the right whatever it is. It can help me distill and move forward much faster than I would on my own. So very, very powerful, but Yeah, the human needs to be driving the ship. So what's like, engage, what's one way you're using AI to move the needle forward Yeah, so what we do in general is we help sales teams build amazing content that helps their sales process move and flow very, very seamlessly. So their sales reps have confidence when they're selling. And we give the tools to make sure everybody has the right content and then we can measure what people are doing with that content. So a lot of people have sent presentations out to their sales team. They never know if they deliver them. They actually never know if they even use them. And they don't know if they maybe change them and change the marketing message or the images or the way the presentation is delivered. We give all those tools. Where does AI help in that? It helps in, number one, idea creation. That blank page problem, new customers coming to us, they're revamping their sales process, they want to embed it into our platform. We help them using AI to brainstorm, outline, get the crux of the presentation because we have thousands and thousands and thousands of reps of people using interactive content in the sales process that we can learn from in order to create a great outline for any new customer. That's one. The second is we're using it on the analytics side. So as we get data from all of the different presentations that are being delivered, one of the things we're working on now hasn't shipped is using AI to look at that data to make good decisions based on how people are using the content in the sales process. The other, what we don't wanna do is we don't just wanna wrap AI around our thing and call us an AI platform. It's a lazy approach. We wanna look at the data that we have on our platform that helps train the AI so that our customers today and our future customers can leverage all the best practices of what people are doing and having success with. So that's our philosophy around is to build moats in our business around the data that only we have to help our current and new customers get up and running as fast as they can, get as much value as they can, and then solve problems for them using the knowledge we've gained from all So I wanna make sure that we point out, that we make sure people know how to find you and find out more Yeah, totally. I think the easiest way is Instagram. I can send it to our website, engage.io with an I, so I-N-G-E.io, like that's of course, head to the website. But I think also Instagram has been becoming more and more of a place that I like to talk with people first, because- Likewise, yeah. A website's kind of a headless thing. And for some people, that's exactly how they want to learn, which is awesome. You can link over to, you know, PreCanDemo, you can get a demo. But if you're, if you want to connect on Instagram and just message me the word Brett to let me know that that's how you found me, that would be amazing. I'm So that'd be a great way to connect as well. Yeah, Dean has great content too, folks. So check him out. Dean, recently I started pivoting more to just something fun at the end of the show. And we had such a great time here today. I really enjoyed our conversation. I want to end with rapid fire questions. Oh, love it. Yeah, so you tell me the first thing that comes to your mind when I ask these. What's one book every leader should read? What To Say by Phil M. Jones. Perfect. What's one mistake you made in leadership that taught you the I slammed my hand on a desk in a meeting one time and I swear I'll never do it again. What's one leader you admire and why? Uh, there's a man, one of my leaders at Apple, his name was John Brandon. So John was the ultimate is a VP of senior vice president of, of enterprise and worldwide sales. And he was, he was everything that you thought he could be as a, as a leader and even Uh, in, in one sentence, what's the future of The future of sales enablement is hyper-personalization by If you weren't leading Engage, what would you be doing right If money was not an issue and it just my Here's another one. biggest eat the frog task you do in the mornings? Oh, I work out. Yeah. Every day. Yeah. Same. One piece of advice you Just be patient. Don't rush the journey. Be patient. Good things are ahead. Yeah. Finish this sentence. The best sales leaders in 2030 will? Be adaptable. I love it. How can people connect with, I already asked, but hey, remember folks, connect with Dean on Instagram, DM him, Brett. And Dean, it's been incredible getting to meet you today. And I really am glad we connected. I look forward to carrying on Absolutely. Brett, I appreciate your time and your wisdom. Thanks so Thanks for tuning in to The Adaptive Mindset. If you found value in today's episode, don't forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with someone who's ready to thrive in the digital age.