Welcome to the Adaptive Mindset. I'm Brett Gallant, cybersecurity thought leader and founder of Adaptive Office Solutions. Here, we don't just talk tech, we unlock the strategies, stories, and mindset shifts you need to stay secure, lead boldly, and thrive in a digital world. Let's get started. So welcome back to the Adaptive Mindset. Today, I'm thrilled to have a guest who knows a thing or two about building systems for predictable growth. Moses Thien, founder of the Perfect Growth System. He's a growth marketer, a data-driven strategist, and someone who's passionate about helping businesses optimize their revenue and profit. But the other thing, Moses is also a dad, a husband, And someone who understands that business success is intertwined with every other part of our lives. Moses, welcome to the show.

Brett Gallant

Thanks for having me here.

Moses Thien 

Hey, awesome. So, so I like to start off with, see if you could tell us a little bit about your journey and like, how did you go from, from where you are? Like we're starting and founding Perfect Growth System and helping businesses achieve predictable growth.

Brett Gallant

Yeah, so it started probably close to seven years ago. So I actually moved from Singapore to Canada after I married my beautiful wife. And what happened was in Canada, I tried to apply for a whole range of jobs. So before getting into digital marketing and starting my own business, I was actually working for a pharmaceutical firm, I was a medical sales representative, so I was selling drugs as you say, and ultimately I tried to find a similar line of work here, couldn't get it, so I was like, what can I really do? And that's where I started diving into the world of digital marketing, and that really transcends to what you see today. And along that journey, I worked with a lot of dentists. I worked with a lot of local service-based business owner. And initially through my journey, right, initially at the start of my journey, a lot of people would find me from a lead generation perspective. Hey, I need to generate more leads for my clients. I need to, for my company, I need to close more business. Right. And it kind of seemed like a very easy way into marketing until I realized that when a client hire you they're not necessarily just talking about leads in general so when they're asking for for me to run their facebook ads or youtube ads google ads in itself right it isn't just fundamentally the leads they're looking for they're looking for in terms of a sale and there's kind of a very big disconnect when I start going into all these businesses because a lot of time what happens more often than not is when I start generating leads for them there was a lot of holes in their business systems and leads start falling through the cracks and it becomes really really frustrating when you're spending money for someone and they do not have their process in place. And at the end of the day, what happens is they come back to you and ask you, where are my results? And from a lead generation perspective, yes, the leads, there are leads who are really interested in a promotion, they fill up a very long form, but there's a lack of contactability. There's a lack of follow-up being done by whatever is happening in the clinic, in the business in itself. And that's where it leads to a lot of gaps in the business. And that's kind of where I start thinking in terms of like, okay, great. So a lot of people are looking for lead generation, but they're not really looking for lead generation. So how do I actually solve this problem in terms of getting them into customers? So a lot of things I start questioning in terms of like, do they have the right tracking system in place? Do they have the right system and processes in place? What does that look like? who is actually responsible for what. So that kind of tie into more about firstly making sure they have kind of a tracking process in place. Just I know that when these come in, where are they coming in from, what's happening to them, who's actually picking up the phone. So from there, really piece the bits and pieces together to understand how somebody's business actually function. and then ultimately knowing that, hey, like if they were to have a conversation with me, hey, I'm not getting enough, I'm not getting enough customers, which is what they want at the end of the day. I would just pull out this tracking data and say like, hey, like, so based on what I can show you here, like this is where your gaps are. So how do you want to go about fixing it? So that kinds of tie into more about creating tracking systems and then hiding in the system and processes so that ultimately both work hand in hand to make the whole system predictable in itself.

I think that's brilliant because it ties in really beautifully to the name of your business, The Perfect Growth System. And the whole purpose in our podcast, we talk about these adapting and mindset shifts, and you're constantly adapting to meet meet the needs of your clients. And ultimately what it is, it's a win-win situation. You want to help and serve your client. And sometimes it sounds like what you're doing is this discovery to find out what they actually need and helping them fill the gaps and shifting that to ultimately serve them the best way possible. Have you ever had a challenge where you had to change your mindset or adapt to a challenge when you were serving a client in approaching these?

all the time because it's hard when a business owner is so close to the problem. My challenge is to help them rethink in terms of what their problem is. I would say at the end of the day, that's something that A lot of business owners don't have first hand because firstly you're too close to the problem and you're too close to the problem, you don't actually see the problem. You think that everything else is kind of the problem instead of what the problem actually is.

So keeping that in mind, what would be the best piece of advice you would say to somebody that was coming and looking at handling their marketing and making that shift of mindset, how they should approach it? What would be the first one to three steps, your best advice that you would give to someone when they're considering working with you and working on this? What should they do to prepare?

I think a lot of things ties back into having clarity right in terms of like great like I need more clients but ultimately understanding what does that really mean right where's the big gap because ultimately if I always ask this to business owner and it's a really a football talk for anybody listening to this right it's just that when people start talking about oh i need more clients i want to grow my business the easiest lever to pull is spending more money on ads finding more ways to get more leads into the door but i'm i'm gonna ask this right so you are already having a profitable business profitable or a functioning business if i if i may put it that way right but at the end of the day Last month, if I were to look at how customer, how customer slash lead flow goes into the business in itself, how many people actually close? How many leads do you actually close? And how many leads was not closed? And what is currently happening to those that have not been closed, right? Where are they in your sales process? Where are they in your sales journey? Can you pull them out? Can you actually identify them? Because if you cannot answer that question in itself, right? Wouldn't it be crazy if you ask somebody, a marketing agency or growth consultant or whatsoever to come on in to generate more leads for you and then expect that to turn all those leads to actually turn into customer. So if you cannot even, if you don't even have that perspective in place first, right, like that is where you should really start before thinking into any avenues of marketing.

Yeah, it's like setting the direction of the sail and knowing where you're going. And that's true. I really believe that's true in a lot of things in life. And when you have that clarity and you set the goal and you know where you're going, everything becomes a little easier because you know where to put your focus on. And if you don't have that focus, it can be quite challenging to get there, and you can't measure that. So getting clear and getting the clarity is often challenging. So I'm sure you often work with your clients to help them get clarity, because sometimes it's like, I know when I'm speaking with clients and even friends, asking probing questions to help them get clarity to really understand the root cause of the problem. Have you ever had challenges or cases where you've helped somebody get that clarity?

More often than not, that happens really early on in my entire sales journey as well as my own sales process for my business. Because I realized that if people don't have their mindset shift right at the start in terms of where the gaps are in my business, I need to think of a bigger Like I need to see business as a whole and not just truncated divisions in my company, right? Like marketing is just marketing and sales is just sales. No, like it all ties together as one flow of a machine, right? Which is why I say it's a system, it's a growth system in itself. And if people don't actually see that at the start, I try to help them understand that. I'll start like questions like I said, like last month you closed, you have 100 leaks coming in, you closed five. What happened to the rest of 95? Can you explain it to me? If they can't explain to me, I was like, okay, great. Like, don't you see that this is a problem? You can't explain it to me. So do you have clarity in terms of where people are in your entire sales journey? Do you have an ideal customer process or ideal customer journey that you are actually bringing them through? Like, if you don't, that's something that we need to start working on. Do you see why it's important, right?

Like, so it kind of- And there's so many avenues to that, that we need to break down. And sometimes people could have the best leads, but their sales system and without a great sales system and they go hand in hand, you would have the best leads. And if you can't really speak and have that whole process of how you engage in the client, you've done all this investment and you're not getting the return because you have to cover all the whole holistic approach to that. And that's what I love beautiful of that perfect growth system. It's having the clarity of the, of the leads, but also having all the other parts. And I've seen it so many times where in part of that whole system, the sales engine falls because not really clear. And sometimes we don't have that confidence or belief in that mindset. And I know for me, a lot of times what I'm talking to fellow colleagues is, coming from the viewpoint of ultimately serving, serving the best interests of our clients, serving them, say, this is what's on my heart, this is what you need, and this is why, and this is the process of it. And that's what's beautiful about what you're saying is tying that and serving and having that whole holistic approach to it. So, yeah.

Yeah, I think one thing to add as well, right, I mean like the biggest issue and most of the time not people don't actually think about it, right, is processes, right. I mean in system we have automations and like things to capture data and whatsoever but if you don't have a predictable process like SOPs in place, right, standard operating procedures in place or having key metrics to what you're tracking of each row function of people in that sales process that's where a very big gaps for and I can tell you this for like for the many medical clients that I work with right like dentists, physiotherapists, occupational therapists like a lot of time a very good example is their front desk staff or their receptionist is actually the salesperson of their company but they don't actually understand that that is the case and I mean you're laughing and I

No, I understand. Yes, because in the face of the company, they're doing the customer interaction. And yeah, I totally understand that. A hundred percent. Yeah.

Yeah. And that's kind of where, when we start running apps, right. Or like when we start introducing a new lead flow, this person at the front desk, because they don't have a real clarity in terms of what their job scope really is, all they're doing is just answering phones. And that is so detrimental to a growth of any medical company itself because what happens is they are waiting for people to call in to actually book an appointment as compared to like, hey, if a lead comes in, they have standard system and standard processes that they should be following to engage the lead first. So that itself, I mean, anybody who's running a medical a medical company or medical business should, if you are listening to this, right, like the only thing that you need to think about is if you actually have a very clear role in terms of a receptionist doing a sales job and they are very clear in it, I can tell you that you are going to increase your revenue anywhere between 30 to 60% just overnight, just because now you have somebody.

I think that's true in all, all verticals. If they understand the why, The big thing is the why. Why are we serving the customer? Why are we saying this and understanding and how that impacts the business? And having the SOP, the playbook, is the magic. And sometimes we think, oh, that takes a lot of work. But I think you would agree with me, Moses, when you do what's hard, everything else becomes easier.

And especially people problems, right? I mean, if all these things are not nipping in the bud and you let somebody who's dictating whether a lead would interact with your clinics or your practice or your business upfront to whether is it going to be outbound or inbound, you're just letting, you're just waiting for a phone call versus now somebody is actually calling out, man, the difference that is going to bring to your business is tremendously different.

Tremendously. And all it takes, and so I know in my own life, where I've adapted and changed over the last few years, is I remember one time I said, I don't have time to go to the gym. And I was told by my coach, you mean you own your own business, you can't go to the gym? So you take that time and so you invest a little bit of time initially, make those plans, coach your key stakeholders, the receptionist, and then all of a sudden that's going to give the rest of your practice or the rest of your organization so many more dividends and everybody's going to be at another level. You're going to be happy as the business owner. The receptionist is going to be happier. But you know what the other magic of that? is the client's going to be happier. It's a win-win. So yeah. So Moses, question for you. I know you believe that business isn't just a standalone goal. It's deeply connected to family, health, and other areas of your life. So how does that philosophy shape the way you help business owners?

So I think firstly, the first part of why do I believe in it, I think a lot of times, just like what you just said, you are a business owner but you cannot go to the gym. Or you put the restriction on your own mind in terms of like, because now all your time gets stuck in the business, trying to build the business and then you forego everything else in life. And that becomes a very big issue in terms of like because now 80 90 percent of your time is just on the business 10 percent of time is whatever you need whatever you have left to do in your life and that kind of restrict you in terms of growth because it becomes so segmented and then everything else becomes unhappy your life your family your friends your your health right and and it just it just keeps the balance in terms of very business heavy and not alignment in everything else and in terms of how i try to relate that to business owners first i i'm very clear in terms of timelines with my clients, especially when it comes to booking a call with me, right? For example, if people like to book it after office hours, I'm like, nope, like this is not when I'm going to deal with your situation. Like this is, I'm very clear with them from the get go, not because I don't want to serve them, but I'm just setting up clear boundaries in terms for myself to show that, hey, like I care for my family, for the things that I want to do. But in other things as well, I do challenge business owner in terms of like, hey, like, I mean, not more from a, like, like a counselor perspective or I do share with them in terms of like, like what I do in my life, what I do so that they can actually see glimpses of and where conversations like, Hey, like you, you're running a business. How can you do all these kinds of things? Right? So like things that I do, I rock climb, I run, I train for marathons and stuff like that. And people, people become fascinated when, when I start talking about all this, especially some of my clients and they ask like, how do I do it? And, and it just takes a bit of sharing or like a mindset shift for them to, to make them realize that it is not just business alone that is going to make them happy in this life, right? Everything has to be intertwined and how can you actually be segmenting that? Are you in control of your own time or is your business in control of you? So that's kind of the question I get them to really think about. So to make them think deeper in terms of how they can actually expand their mindset into thinking that everything is actually interlinked because of the time that they have.

And I bet you 100% that you're inspiring your clients and the people around you by setting that example. And when you do that, you have, I really believe, when you're doing things like that and setting the example, you're showing up as a better father. You have that oxygen to be there. You're better able to serve your clients. and you're better able to handle the stresses because in reality, let's face it, owning a business and being a father and being a person of this world, there are days that are challenges. And when you give yourself that permission to have that mindset shift to serve yourself first, you can ultimately serve others. which is so great that you know that. And I love sharing stories like that because I know on the other side, when you get to that point, a lot of other things in your life, those challenges that come up, are much easier to handle when you approach life that way, making sure you have that whole balance. So what would you say to someone right now that might be struggling trying to find that balance? Where would you say that they could have that shift in mindset? Where would you say they could start?

I think the very first thing is acknowledging that you want to change. I think that's the first part I think that most people don't do. And the only reason why I have all this conversation, right? It's not, yes, it's going to inspire somebody else, but it is also a constant reminder to myself that this is the standard that I'm upholding in my own life, right? And that's kind of like why, and I I know that you feel the same way as well, right? Like in terms of like the more I talk to somebody about it, the more I'm reinforcing what I believe in my own life and that's what I hold true. And to me, like when you say where can somebody start, it's really they have to start acknowledging that this is something that they want to change. Because if this is something that is important to you, what if... And I think this is a very true statement that most business owners use, but I would say that less than 50% of them actually hold true. I'm doing this for my family. But then when I'm doing this for my family, how much time are you actually spending with your family on a daily basis? How much time on a week? What does that look like? Do you have intentional time with them? Do you have, or are you just constantly just grinding and just being in the business, solving problems, answering every single phone call that comes in? I know those are things that can be inevitable at times because I do go through those. But what are the boundaries are you actually setting to make sure that your family is your utmost importance at any point of time, right? What does that look like? Show it to me, right? Because if you cannot acknowledge that this is something that you really want, then nothing is going to start. So that's kind of the first thing that I will look into in terms of how people should have their mindset shift. Because if you say that I'm building this, I mean, if people say that I'm building a business for money, okay, great. Like definitely family is not, not the most important thing when you're building your business. But a lot of time when people are building their business is because they want time freedom, money freedom, financial freedom, so that they can actually spend more time with their family. But the thing is, it's not going to happen when you become rich. It's going to happen now when you're developing the muscle in terms of how you are going to intertwine everything in your life. That's so true.

I've said that before. Mindset is a muscle and you got to work it. And so, putting that time and making that decision now. Now is the best time to make the decision, instead of waiting for the perfect time to get to that point. Because a lot of times there's this old story, a perfect time to get married and have a family. Ultimately, I remember reading it, this man and woman waited the perfect time to have children. By the time they decided to get married and have children, they were 75. They paid off the mortgage and everything. So I want to just take you back a little bit for a second and ask you this. If you go back to the Moses 10, 15 years ago, I'm sure you didn't have this mindset and this whole approach to the philosophy of your business, connecting to health and other areas of life. What would you say to you 10 to 15 years ago, like that other version of you that hadn't become who you are today?

alignment. I think I would tell Moses 15 years ago to be more aligned in terms of the actions that he did. Because I think that that's something that everybody, I mean, and this is common for a lot of people, right? I mean, I think that you will relate 100% to this. There comes a point of when you were young, I mean, younger, and then you start doing things, you're just doing things and be in motion. You're just following the hustle and bustle of life. Oh, I need to do this. I need to do that. But there's no alignment to the why. Why am I doing this? Why am I doing that? What is it for? What is the bigger purpose? And I feel that that is something that is increasingly disconnected with everybody in society. And that's kind of like what I would tell myself earlier. Because if I am able to really answer that question and have that focus in terms of what I'm doing earlier, trajectory in terms of where I am today is going to change. And that's what I, yeah. And that's what I kind of like what I'm telling myself is not even knowing what to do or not figuring out the house. Right. But it's really figuring out the why and how are you trying to be aligned and what, what does it mean to be aligned when you have that? Why? And, and if you, if it all starts there, right, I want to be, I want to be fitter. Great. Then you start thinking in terms of like what you should be doing, what you should be eating, how you should be living your day. Right. But the thing is, people start like nowadays people start doing things like I mean I have friends coming to me hey like yeah I want to quit my job because I want to have a better future okay great then why are you not quitting your job now like why like oh yeah because I need financial security so they're not very clear in terms of what their why really looks like and what needs to happen so like really having that clear alignment in the bigger scope of things would be very important and and like like it's something that I'm instilling to like so like two sons and and to me these are things that I tried to implement, I mean, there are three and five, but a very simple thing to program their mind early in the morning is like, ask them, what day is it today? And they say like, today's the best day ever. So it's kind of like, just putting this alignment in terms of like, every day can be a great day. Every day is your best day, right? Like how, and once you have that in mind, it's just, I mean, now they're young, it's just a fun thing to do, but when they get older, they will start realizing that all these things have meanings in terms of what they're doing, how they can be progressing in life. And that creates an alignment in terms of how they can create their own bigger future as well.

I think that's great because that's really, it is a decision. We have challenges and it's how we interpret it and it's a decision how we, sometimes we have challenges in the day, but it's a decision on how you say it. I love that. I decide today is going to be a great day. Because today, today is a great day.

is some people don't even get to see today right and like yeah like what like and people don't actually understand that right and and to me it goes back in terms of like i mean like like what you said just now about uh the people waiting for the perfect time to do the perfect thing right but the thing is there's no such thing as a perfect time i mean in a morbid situation right what if i die tomorrow what if somebody that i want to care about pass away tomorrow and I don't even have had the chance. And that's kind of like, in a morbid way, giving me a positive way of thinking in terms of like striving for the best every single day. Because I know that what I do today is going to affect somebody. Tomorrow is not guaranteed. And ultimately how I live today is going to be, it's easy to say, but ultimately the thing is that's kind of the mindset I really want to have for the rest of my life.

Yeah, how can I make an impact on somebody's day today? And really sometimes it's just a matter of what I like to do sometimes is just send a message to somebody even through a text message or through LinkedIn and just say, I was thinking about you today and I appreciate you. I hope you're having an incredible day. Just wanna let you know I'm grateful for knowing you. Yeah. I get so much energy out of that and what you do with your children, I love that. Today is a great day. Today is the best day ever.

Because they say it with a smile and kids are innocent. They actually mean it when they say it. And it kind of reframe your mind entirely. And people should just do that, like positive motivation. I mean, yeah, people think that these are all woo-woo stuff, but ultimately it really helps in the bigger scope of programming your mind in terms of like, hey, like, I mean, We are fighting fires every single day. We run our own business. We fight fires every day. We have problems to be solving. But ultimately, with this reframe, you can see that everything is going to turn into an opportunity. Everything is a chance for you to improve yourself as a human being. And no matter how tough things are going to get, it's just another day that you are going to thrive. And ultimately, that's kind of what I'm seeking, which is why all these little things do matter a lot to me.

Yeah, and ultimately sometimes things are gonna come in during your day and you're gonna say that you might see it as being a challenge, but often in those challenges are the biggest opportunities. So I wanna shift for a second and talk to you a moment about lead generation versus customer acquisition. So you mentioned that many businesses throw away their time and money on ineffective marketing. What's the difference between lead gen and customer acquisition and where do customers go wrong?

I mean, leads are people who are interested, right? I mean, you talk about leads, somebody who's interested, but interest comes on varying level. I could be slightly interested. I could be very interested, ready to pull the trigger to buy something, right? So kind of, you have to really think about that in the bigger scope when we think of lead generation versus customer acquisition, because how can you make, how can you filter out people with a certain level of interest to go down through the next step of your sales journey versus people who are slightly interested in what are you going to do to nurture them in the bigger scope of things because that is definitely not something that people do actually like really consider when they talk about lead generation because most of the time I mean they have an idea but it's not flushed out and because more more often than not people think about the now right But now when I spend this money to do lead gen, I need to acquire a customer today. And to me that is 100% false information in terms of what that's going to be like. Which is why, how can you really reframe your mind in terms of based on this, who are the leads that are interested that I want to push forward versus who are the leads that are not so interested that I need to be nurturing. What does that look like?

Focus and it's not a sprint, it's a marathon.

Yes, correct. Exactly. And how can you give them the best customer experience that you can design so that you can acquire them successfully? And a lot of people, right? I mean, like now you see a lot of salespeople, you get a lot of sales call on your phone every single day from some random spam number because you're opting into something. And this is not uncommon. But the thing is, people start doing that because they don't have, they are looking to convert now. They're not really thinking in terms of how can I design something for my clients or for my lead so that they can have an experience to go and ultimately be more interested in something that I offer and then decide to become a customer, right? So, I mean, there's going to be always the balance between the push and the pull, right? Like push when you're calling them, you're nurturing them, like from a very direct a direct phone call perspective or direct response perspective. And then there's the pool where, what are you doing from a nurturing sequence, right?

Giving value without serving them, giving your best stuff. Yes.

Yeah. Even as a phone call, right? Like with a phone call, it doesn't necessarily have to always be a, Hey, are you interested in Dubai? No. Like, Hey, like I'm here. I saw you opt into this. Is there any question? Like what makes, what, What caused you to opt into this or what made you interested in something like this? Is this something that I can help answer? It's just more of a curious question. I like to say more than I'm actually pushing you through like, hey, like, like, hey, I saw you opt into this. So when would you like to get started? I mean, like context matters.

Well, exactly. And if you know a little bit about the vertical or the customer and you came across some information, say, hey, I came across this information and I noticed you signed up a few weeks ago. I just want to reach out and thank you for signing up. But I also want to tell you, hey, this came across my desk and I want you to be aware of it just so you're aware. I'm sure it would help you. Sometimes just doing that to nurture the lead can be impactful, I'm sure. Yeah, 100%. Here's a practical tip. What's one piece of advice you could give to a business owner who wants to stop wasting their marketing budget?

start mapping out your sales process and be very clear in terms of what that looks like. I think that is where it all starts. It doesn't start with going and questioning in terms of why am I spending so much money here, but understanding your entire sales process as a whole, like what stage, who's responsible for what, because I can tell you, The only reason why I can run my business in a bigger scope of things is because there's a lack of clarity in this area. And most people, they come to me, the very first thing I do is like, hey, show me your sales process. You cannot show it to me. Great. Let's go into a process mapping session to actually help you understand what that looks like. Because if you cannot show it to me, no matter how simple it is, you just don't have a grip in terms of who is responsible for what and what are you really tracking at the end of the day.

Okay, good. Yeah, that's something to take home. I know a lot of listeners are gonna take some value from that and everything else we talked about so far, but another question for you. So predictable revenue and profit sound like every business owner's dream, right? Like, I mean, we all want, but where should someone start if they want to build a system today that could support that kind of growth? Like what are two things that someone could do Now, in preparation to speaking with someone like you, or if they're trying to do it on their own, what would you say to them to start with?

Yeah, so like we said about the sales process map, so processing a customer, their sales journey, and ultimately knowing who is responsible for each function of the business. Because I think that is kind of like, who's the key function, and what needs to be tracked for that particular role? What art is that person actually responsible in? Because more often than not, that's not being talked about. And we assume that we hire some, or a business owner hires somebody into a role, they expect that the person is going to do their job pretty well. That is your business, yours.

That's like the example of the receptionist, like the SOP that you talked about. Mapping that out and just taking a little bit of that time and doing that hard work, which will make everything easy. Yeah.

Right. And like having a standard script, what she should be saying, how she should be saying, like having those little details mapped out. I think that people, business owner wants to go fast and they expect the person that they bring in to actually solve that problem. But they need every business owner, including myself, as a reminder for myself, We hire team members onto our team so that they can help us grow and scale. But the thing is, if you're not there to guide and set the right expectation in terms of like all these fundamental things needing to be done right, you're just bringing in somebody who you expect to do the work without the necessary direction.

You know, a little insight to add to that, I'm passionate about scouting and we have the slogan in traditional scouting, train them, trust them and let them lead. And that applies exactly to what you're talking about. Train them, trust them and empower your team with them understanding the why. So, Moses, I want to ask you a question. You know, you're a dad and a husband, okay? What are you most proud of being a dad? Do you have anything you're most proud of with your family that you want to share with our audience?

So in terms of our product, I'm most proud of my kids in terms of where they are at, whatever they're doing. And I think the biggest thing for me is seeing my little ones growing up and seeing how they are always learning new things and they're not shy to try. And I think that because of the innocence, we are there to guide them and they say, oh, I cannot do it. But I mean, yeah, you cannot do it now. You just have to try, right? And they are willing to try. I rock climb so I bring my kids to the climbing gym a lot of times and they do those kind of things. But I mean if you see a three-year-old trying their best in terms of like doing like climbs just because it's fun and like having that in itself, it just reminds me of like they take pride of every little thing that they do and they do it to the best of their ability and that's something that I mean like all parents should be very proud of their kids. in the sense of growing up. I think being a dad put me in a very different frame of mind altogether as compared to being an individual. Now, whatever I do is going to be an example for them and it's not just what I say, it's really what I do and they do see it and it's just being more cognizant in terms of what I should be doing on a daily basis and when I see them picking up great habits that I set an example, my wife set an example, it just fills your heart with so much pride that they are really trying their best to be somebody in this world.

Yeah. And that, you know, I, I see that in you, Moses, because you are obviously a man that has pride in what you do professionally, personally, and as a dad. And I think having that mindset that you're serving on all aspects is just a great way to be in today's world and having that pride of your children, setting that example is such an awesome legacy and teaching to give to your children. So I know you're a reader, okay?

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I can see it. You got some great books in the back there. So what's, what's one book that's made a big impact on you recently?

recently, I mean through my life, The Road Less To Be by Keith Cunningham. It's a great book about thinking and it really questions people's ability to think and it guides you with questions that you should be thinking about, not just in life, not just in business, but in life as well. So it is all about I have the book just here by my desk. It helps me because there's lots of questions in it. On the title, it says avoiding the dumb mistakes that sabotage growth, profit and business success. I would say that this is everything in life. It gives you questions to think in terms of what... So in his book, he has this thing called the dumb text. right like if you don't think about it and you do it what you're going to end up paying is called the dumb tax like because you weren't processing it and then you realize it later but on a lot of these can actually be avoided upfront if you actually have the time to think and process in terms of how you should be doing things not think without action but thinking in terms of like hey like what should you be doing next and once you have that all flushed out you actually get uh going in the right direction so like to me that is definitely a book that i recommend Business, non-business owners, they should just read it because it really questions innately in terms of how people should be thinking these days, especially with the ever-increasing busyness we are going on in life and many things that we need to do. But how do we know what we are doing is going to be the right thing that we are going to do moving forward?

It sounds like you're studying that book all the time. All the time, yes. How often are you reading? Besides that, do you read a book once or twice a month?

So yeah, I try to finish one book a month. So, uh, I know that there's a lot. I mean, I, I like marketing books, productivity, uh, leadership books, uh, great thought leader. So like I read a big general of, of books. I'm not a great reader when I was younger. I'm like, yes, I don't really read only when I actually started picking up reading probably around three, three and three, four years ago. So like now reading has become part of like, like who I am as a person.

That's one that's going to go on my list to read. Thank you for that. That's awesome.

Yeah, you should read it. It's really amazing. Once you read it, let me know what you think about it.

Oh, I definitely will. What I like to do is oftentimes I'll buy the Audible. and listen to it while I'm driving or in the gym and learn while I'm burning muscle or making muscle. I'm not burning it, hopefully. So Moses, you've shared some incredible insights today on aligning business with life and creating systems for growth. and marketing pitfalls. Where can people find you and learn more about the perfect growth system or connect with you online? I want to make sure people get that so they can connect with you. You brought a lot of value today and it was so great to meet you. What an incredible journey and conversation today.

Thanks for that. So yeah, people can find me at www.theperfectgrowthsystem.com. And if they want to actually learn more in terms of like what the perfect growth system is, and like using like tools, like go high level as well in terms of their business, right, they can go to theperfectgrowthsystem.com forward slash amplify. So there's a whole free course fleshed out on how people can actually learn more about during their own perfect growth system without needing someone like me, like they can actually just go through that, go through the entire process to learn more about it as well. And I got a little surprise for you. Nice, great, great t-shirt. I love your t-shirt.

Yeah, it was just by chance I put it on, but folks, you really need to connect with Moses, not just only because of, well, because of who he is, but also that the thought that he'll put into supporting you and the mindset shifts that he can also help guide you with. But the product that I know he uses is a powerful platform. And it's a great tool that I know that you can use with an expert like Moses to impact your business. Moses, it was such a pleasure to be here with you today. I've learned a lot, and I'm really grateful that we had this time to connect. And I know our audience is going to love hearing from you. It was a great, great conversation.

Yeah, it was nice. It was nice talking to you too. It's really, it's really enjoyable to have, to be able to speak with somebody who's like-minded, who knows in terms of like what you can, what, what I'm going through and ultimately like you are years ahead in terms of what in the industry in itself, man. So I definitely have lots to learn from you and I will listen to your podcast as well.

Thank you. Take care, everyone. Have an incredible week ahead. Thanks for tuning into the Adaptive Mindset. If you found value in today's episode, don't forget to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with someone who's ready to thrive in the digital age. Stay secure, stay adaptable, and I'll see you next time.